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Israel and UAE reach historic peace deal, Israel to suspend annexation
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- lobo_tuerto 6y agoIn case you need more context on the whole issue (as I did), here is a good explanation that I found: https://www.vox.com/2020/7/13/21317900/israel-west-bank-annexation-palestine-netanyahu-trump https://www.vox.com/2020/7/13/21317900/israel-west-bank-anne...
- DoofusOfDeath 6y agoAny explanation for why parent comment was downvoted? I don't have the background to discern if there's something amiss in the referenced Vox article.
- jaywalk 6y agoVox is a garbage source for pretty much anything.
- guykdm 6y agoAs an Israeli, I'm ecstatic! UAE citizens - please come and visit Israel, you'll be treated with Abrahamic hospitality and great respect!
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Enginerrrd 6y agoIs this really true? I recall just 10 years ago a Jewish friend of mine commented on how offended his Israeli guide was that he had bought and wore an Arab head scarf while visiting Israel. That's from a TOUR GUIDE!
- dternyak 6y agoI can't imagine why the tour guide would be offended – head scarves are by no means out of place in Israel, or anywhere in the region. Many Israelis that I know are thrilled about the trend towards stronger diplomatic ties (and with that, peace) in the region. Israel has previously made big concessions for diplomacy, like giving up the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt in the Egypt–Israel Peace Treaty.
- CameronNemo 6y agoPerhaps Israelis differ significantly in their perception of neighboring cultures, just like Americans differ greatly in their perception of Latin American immigrants?
- Udik 6y ago> Many Israelis that I know are thrilled about the trend towards stronger diplomatic ties (and with that, peace) And how do they feel about returning the territories they have illegally annexed or occupied- the Golan heights, East Jerusalem and much of the West Bank? Because otherwise "peace" just means enjoying what you stole without fear of consequences.
- shliachtx 6y agoThere are consequences to starting wars of aggression intending to destroy a nation. One of those consequences is losing land if you lose the war.
- Udik 6y agoIt's a pity you just made this "rule" up, because the delivery was very convincing. No, such a rule doesn't exist. Seems more like "an eye for an eye" than any form of civilized law.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- rowanseymour 6y agoPlease treat the Palestinians with Abrahamic hospitality and great respect!
- revnode 6y agoPlease stop killing Israelis. It is hard to offer someone hospitality when they are trying to kill you.
- helge9210 6y agoDo you want to count how many Israelis were killed and how many Palestinian Arabs we (israeli) kill?
- revnode 6y agoThose numbers don't indicate who is right or who is wrong. Who is justified and who isn't. Just who is better at killing.
- helge9210 6y agoIf you detain and imprison eight year old kid, grabbing him from school, it is reasonable to assume, that his father, his grandfather, his older and younger brothers will hold a grudge, so to speak.
- revnode 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Murdered_Israeli_children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Murdered_Israeli_chil... There's literally a Wikipedia category for Israeli children that were murdered. If you murder a child, then "it is reasonable to assume, that his father, his grandfather, his older and younger brothers will hold a grudge, so to speak." Let me know if you see a point to this conversation, because I don't see it.
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- dragonwriter 6y ago> Abrahamic hospitality Given the treatment the members of the various Abrahamic faith's have given each other over history, I'm not sure if that is an inducement, flowery euphemism for a mortal threat, or something somewhere in between.
- vnchr 6y agoIt’s being called the Abraham Accords, so if you can suspend your cynicism, I think you’ll realize the answer
- guykdm 6y agoWe're really changing that right now.
- apta 6y ago> Given the treatment the members of the various Abrahamic faith's have given each other over history Quite a non-realistic view of history and people's behavior. People will do bad things regardless of (and in-spite of) religion, and we have seen it (WWI/II, the massacres of the Uyghurs, the Holocaust, etc.). Humans are bloody creatures after all.
- mda 6y agoOnly please avert avert your gaze from the huge walls that keeps us safe from other people of Abrahamic faith. (sorry for the snark, couldn't help it)
- DkNiemand0 6y agoSorry to pick exclusively on your comment, but why the snark? Many of the comments here are just that. Not only does that not add to the conversation, it sends the message some people (Israelis) can't say some things (a positive message towards another people in this case) without getting flak. I think we should celebrate such manifestations, and not react with irony. I'm quite optimistic about the news. I think it has the potential to be a great first step of many.
- bogomipz 6y agoPerhaps some of that Abrahamic hospitality might also be extended to your fellow countrymen the Beta Israel(Ehtiopian Jews) as well then? See: https://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/ethiopian-jews-once-hailed-now-cast-aside/ https://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/ethiopian-jews-once-hai... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32813056 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32813056 https://www.newsweek.com/2016/10/07/why-ethiopian-jews-israel-face-discrimination-racism-police-brutality-502697.html https://www.newsweek.com/2016/10/07/why-ethiopian-jews-israe...
- nine_zeros 6y agoJust the thought of countries and cultures coming together makes the future look positive.
- chmod775 6y agoThese two cultures can't come together while staying the same, and both countries consider their culture worth protecting. I am not optimistic.
- Igorvelky 6y agoactually, china doesnt care about other countries culture, USA does care, whole soft power shtick is build around this. china need to build other countries to prosper, usa is deforming agriculture in africa thru donations, help to cripple economics of african countries. https://www.lejournalinternational.fr/Foreign-aid-is-hurting-not-helping-Sub-Saharan-Africa_a2085.html https://www.lejournalinternational.fr/Foreign-aid-is-hurting...
- onyva 6y agoIf there are two cultures in the Middle East it’s Eastern European immigrants that never belonged there, and middle eastern people, Jews and Arabs, which coexisted. The persecution complex of the Eastern European Jews (a people that annexed itself and has no ethnic relation to us) is a manufactured clash of civilizations.
- shliachtx 6y agoThe implication - that Jews who were in Eastern Europe are not "real" Jews - is a wonderful example of anti-semitism. You only forgot to add on "Go back to Poland!" Edit: Also, "the persecution complex" - as if the single greatest attempt at genocide in modern history was NOT targeted at Jews.
- helge9210 6y agoWhat about artificial famine in Ukraine 1932?
- jameslk 6y agohttps://apnews.com/abcb0ed9a84e2d3da7d87c28641ccc21 https://apnews.com/abcb0ed9a84e2d3da7d87c28641ccc21 Another vantage point from the AP. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/08/israel-uae-announce-normalisation-relations-200813145645861.html https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/08/israel-uae-announce-n... And Al Jazeera for somewhat completeness.
- sequoia 6y agoIf that Al Jazeera article were on Wikipedia it'd (hopefully) get hit with Weasel Words[0] complaints, at least in the lede. > ...a deal slammed by the Palestinians who called it a "treacherous stab in the back". Which Palestinians? All of them? Further down: > Hamas condemned the deal, which it said was a "treacherous stab in the back of the Palestinian people". Ah... Hamas. The same Hamas whose original charter calls for Israel to be destroyed, "invalidated" by Islam[1], whose officials as recently as last year told Palestinians around the world: "You have Jews everywhere and we must attack every Jew on the globe by way of slaughter and killing, if God permits"[2] (he was later forced to walk this back–"how magnanimous" to quote another comment ITT). Shame on Al Jazeera for regarding an organization openly committed to genocide of Jews and the destruction of Israel as the voice of "the Palestinians." I suppose they think my local butcher here in Toronto (from Hebron) should kill me and my family, because "the Palestinians" are directing him to do so. I'm glad he chooses instead he gives my kids lollipops and be a standup guy and a good friend, despite him being Palestinian and me being Jewish. Thank goodness most of us don't listen to the sectarian warmongering promulgated by the likes of Hamas & Likud and amplified by Al Jazeera & Fox News. I consider Al Jazeera treating Hamas as the de facto voice of "the Palestians" is an unfair treatment of a group (Palestinians) with diverse views. Saying Hamas represents all of them is a vicious smear against this group of people. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Words_to_watch#Unsupported_attributions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Word... 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant#Statements_about_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant#Statements_abou... 2: https://www.timesofisrael.com/senior-hamas-official-calls-on-members-of-palestinian-diaspora-to-kill-jews/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/senior-hamas-official-calls-on...
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- 11thEarlOfMar 6y agoCurious if the China/Iran deal had any influence on the timing of this. Iran and UAE were recently in talks to strengthen relations [0], but Iran and Israel/USA are long time adversaries. It's an interesting twist. [0] https://english.alaraby.co.uk/english/comment/2020/8/10/why-the-uae-seeks-stronger-ties-with-iran https://english.alaraby.co.uk/english/comment/2020/8/10/why-...
- actuator 6y agoIt very well might be related. China and Iran getting closer with Pakistan already being heavily funded by China opens a new stronger axis in the middle east power struggle. Israel with its technological superiority and gulf states with their resources will want to have a stronger axis to combat that threat. Somewhat related, SA which has been generous to Pakistan, recently stopped a oil credit line to them. https://www.ft.com/content/49d24c4b-345e-492b-8a8f-c1a550173ee1 https://www.ft.com/content/49d24c4b-345e-492b-8a8f-c1a550173...
- screye 6y agoIt will be really interesting to see what stance India takes in this bipolar US vs China world. India has historically been a strong ally of Iran and Russia, but finds itself precariously close to war with China, and with weakening ties to both Iran and Russia. India has also been a strong ally of Israel's and recently has improved its relations with the other middle eastern nations. It is clear that every sign points towards the US alliance for India, but the political brass still can't completely shed the socialist and even communist cloth some of them were cut from, despite 1991 and everything that came after. India needs to stop blindly following in the footsteps of the thinly veiled Non-Aligned Movement championed by Nehru. It is a bipolar world, neutrality might as well be a death knell.
- free_rms 6y agoThat's an awfully dark take. Why is it in India's interest to be a piece on the board for the US, Russia or China? Non-Aligned seems to match their actual interests. They're big enough that they don't have to be anyone's proxy state.
- markzqz 6y agoWow this is big. I would bet that Saudi Arabia will get into this next.
- onyva 6y agoIt’s actually not. It’s normalization of existing diplomatic relationships that were never a secret. It has Drumpf’s desperate paws all over it.
- polotics 6y agoI would reverse that analysis: more likely the result of a calculation from the two aforementioned middle-eastern countries that giving the current president of the US a bump for re-election would be advantageous.
- onyva 6y agoOf course... because if there's anything we know about Drumpf it's his unwavering loyalty to his supporters.
- newacct583 6y agoFor clarity, because the distinctions are important to a lot of people: Israel has agreed to suspend/delay the process of annexation of West Bank land, they haven't renounced the underlying claim. And there is no agreement to halt the settlement-building process there.
- andrew_ 6y agoBaby steps are still steps. The good has to start somewhere.
- helge9210 6y agoAs israeli citizen I have to clarify: Israel never had a claim on West Bank. Some political forces have. Currently it is under military occupation. There is no internal consensus on this issue. Same goes for the settlements.
- calcifer 6y ago.
- helge9210 6y agoI did notice how you replaced annexation with occupation. There will always be part of population that is less smart (for various reasons). They'll always vote for those parties.
- LegitShady 6y agoThere are plenty of smart people who might disagree with you as well.
- LegitShady 6y agoBecause after decades of trying to make peace and seeing the situation get worse the general population of Israel no longer believes in feel good leftism without some real world solutions. It's all well and good to be anti occupation but then you see rocket production and launching capacity and Gaza and have no interest in seeing that elsewhere.
- Igorvelky 6y agothis was absolutely crucial. also, interesting thing is, after this deal was made, there were tensions on india china border xD also look what western " think thanks " are saying about future of Belarus, they are interestingly negative about supporting opposition xD germany, usa tensions because of nordstream just f awesome to see this hybrid war in realtime. what a time to live xD
- ilstormcloud 6y agoInteresting you use the word "Awesome" to describe it. Sheer terror and bewilderment would have been my first choice.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Igorvelky 6y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mNty-HMBPk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mNty-HMBPk
- onyva 6y agoIsrael of course has non official relationship with most of the neighboring countries and very close with the UAE. Nothing new. It’s the Palestinians they need to make peace with. But of course Drumpf will do anything to make Americans believe he’s achieved something other than killing 200,000 Americans.
- rowanseymour 6y agoWhat kind of peace deal about the future of Palestinians and Palestinian land doesn't involve.. Palestinians? A skeptical person might think this is more about PR for Netanyahu and Trump.
- martythemaniak 6y agoLisa: I'll stop buying Malibu Stacey clothing. Bart: And I'll take up smoking and give that up. Homer: Good for you, son. Giving up smoking is one of the hardest things you'll ever have to do. Have a dollar. [gives a dollar bill to Bart] Lisa: But he didn't do anything! Homer: Didn't he, Lisa? Didn't he?
- IkmoIkmo 6y agoNot historic at all... better to see annexation being suspended than continued of course, but let's not pretend this means much. The majority of the west bank has been illegally occupied for almost 60 years. Nothing in the text reverses any of that, it only appears to suspend Netanyahu's further annexation plans he drew up just last year. It's a pretty sad state of affairs that cancelling a single recent plan to deteriorate an already illegal situation, is sufficient to be portrayed as some kind of historic peace treaty. At this point Netanyahu can propose some other nonsense plan during his election cycle and win with the 'wartime president' bonus, then cancel them afterwards during Trump's election cycle to give him an ostensible diplomatic victory, while continuing the rest of the charade. The situation only gets worse but people are supposed to applaud it? Give me a break.
- googthrowaway42 6y ago"Illegal" means nothing in an international context. Who enforces the "law"? What is the shared moral framework from which that law flows?
- buran77 6y agoIt does mean something and the demarcation line is whether the parties doing it are allies or not. In this case "the West" is the reference point as within this group there's usually a natural or if needed forced consensus on who's an ally and who's the enemy. For example Russia annexing Crimea is widely considered in the West illegal. [0] Now whether you consider the historical claim of a state established by the UN but with no support from the Arab world, one of the two parties that actually mattered, over that party's land, and the numerous wars to expand further as being legitimate compared to Russia's is an exercise left to the reader. [0] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2020/06/18/illegal-annexation-of-crimea-and-sevastopol-eu-renews-sanctions-by-one-year/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2020...
- googthrowaway42 6y agoAgain you're using the word illegal in a way that only makes sense within an actual legal framework. Allies have treaties, pacts, and unwritten norms. An ally cannot engage in an "illegal" act, they can only violate a treaty, pact, or norm. There is no legal framework because neither ally is sovereign over the other. In order for you to fall under a legal framework there must be some entity that is sovereign over you. A citizen (or subject) of some sovereign does not have a "pact" or "treaty" with the sovereign. As an American citizen I do not have a pact or treaty with my municipal, state, and federal government. They have sovereignty and therefore I am subject to their laws.
- ilstormcloud 6y agoIsrael suspending its annexation is excellent for Palestine and very good for Ethiopia. There are ongoing negotiations with Egypt and Sudan about the Abay(Nile) River which is somewhat tense. Sometime ago Trump administration wanted to mediate, which was accepted by all parties (with some reluctance) but very quickly the mediator wanted to become an arbiter. The Trump administration was perceived to favor the Egyptians. They tried to pressure Ethiopia into making concessions which it was not prepared to do. The end result was Ethiopia withdrawing from the US mediated effort and soured relation between the two countries. What a lot of people here(In Ethiopia) think is, the reason Trump Admin was favoring Egypt's weak(er) negotiating position over Ethiopia and the other Nile basin countries is, he and his administration wanted to secure Egyptian support for the annexation of Palestinian territories. If the annexation is off the table, USA will have a little less reason to use its power to pressure Ethiopia into an unfavorable agreement. Frankly, the whole US effort was quite absurd. USA was seen very favorably but the rush to make Ethiopia the sacrificial lamb (to steal some poor people's land) is something that will have a lasting negative effect. This article provides some background of what's going on. https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/07/22/trump-administration-africa-aid-ethiopia-egypt-gerd-nile-sudan-dispute-negotiations/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/07/22/trump-administration-af...
- polotics 6y agoSorry you got downvoted, one doesn't get a point of view from Ethiopia every day, too bad yours was faded to gray.
- ilstormcloud 6y agoYou are very kind. Thank you!
- slavak 6y agoOfficially, the annexation is not off the table, just postponed. Practically, it doesn't look like annexation was ever realistically on the table to begin with. It's much more likely just a campaign slogan Netanyahu leaned on to woo the more hawkish parts of the right. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose by actually trying to push it through.
- mattlondon 6y ago> Israel agreed to suspend its planned extension of sovereignty How magnanimous of them.
- blisterpeanuts 6y agoIsraeli and UAE teams will meet "to sign bilateral agreements regarding investment, tourism direct flights, security, telecommunications, technology, energy, healthcare, culture, the environment, the establishment of reciprocal embassies, and other areas of mutual benefit." This is exciting news, indeed. Israel, with its huge technology sector and UAE with its massive financial resources could together work to transform the Middle East. The announcement alluded to future similar deals with other Arab countries. Likeliest would be Saudi Arabia, another oil-rich moderate state that already has informal back-channel relations with the Jewish state. We shouldn't fool ourselves that this will bring peace in the region this year, but it will certainly put a kink in Iran's expansionist/destabilization efforts, and it will bolster the Trump Administration's prestige in the region, pushing other countries to "fall in line" as it were and support some kind of general framework for peace if not an outright full recognition of Israel's legitimacy.
- pazimzadeh 6y agoThis is not news if you've been paying attention, it's just PR before an election. UAE has quietly been working with Israel quietly allied for years: https://theintercept.com/2017/06/03/hacked-emails-show-top-uae-diplomat-coordinating-with-pro-israel-neocon-think-tank-against-iran/ https://theintercept.com/2017/06/03/hacked-emails-show-top-u...
- shliachtx 6y agoFormalizing relations is certainly news. It seems they plan to establish embassies, create direct flights, etc.
- ronanyeah 6y agoI spent some time in the region in 2017 (Gaza / West Bank / Israel), and it was obvious to me that nothing would change for Palestinians until an Islamic country was able to represent their interests through diplomatic relations with Israel. I think this is great news and I'm very excited to see where it leads.
- dogma1138 6y agoYou assume that any of the Arab countries care about Palestinians sadly outside of the scope of the Israeli Arab conflict where they can be used as pawns they don’t. Even Jordan which 80% of its population is Palestinians doesn’t seem to care much. The next logical step is to actually allow Palestinians to gain refugee status and removing UNRWA so the refugee camps might actually get some permanent housing, utilities and countries like Lebanon and Syria would have to grant them the same rights as any other refugee group.
- amitport 6y ago80%? How do you define this statistic? From what I understand from Wikipedia this seems to be around 20%