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How am I "empowered" on the Internet? If I do not use Mozilla products, am I powerless when I use the Internet? Are all Apple iPhone users powerless? Can I no

How am I "empowered" on the Internet? If I do not use Mozilla products, am I powerless when I use the Internet? Are all Apple iPhone users powerless? Can I no longer "shape my own experience" if I use an iPhone with Safari? If I use Mozilla products, do I get given richer webpages where my experience is modifiable by me? If not, how do I "shape" my experience?? The mission statement is vague, which seems to have translated into liberal spending.

sokoloff 6y ago
While I agree with your last sentence to some extent, I do believe that having a vibrant, viable Mozilla does serve to empower Internet users in a somewhat similar way as the GPL does. Linux and other GPL software I believe has served as a viable alternative to closed/walled gardens like the Apple ecosystem (and I say that from my Macbook with my iPhone and iPad close at hand). Every time we lament the issues of loss of user power in walled gardens, I think it's substantially true that "it could be even worse" if there were no countervailing forces, like Mozilla.
- 72deluxe 6y ago
  This is a good point. I am just not a huge fan of the vague mission statement.
  - falcolas 6y ago
    If your mission statement is too concrete, it can actively prevent you from looking at opportunities. Mission statements are like a wind in the sails of the corporation. It doesn't replace the role of the rudder (that's the job of the C level leaders), but it does lead you in a particular direction.
viraptor 6y ago
> Are all Apple iPhone users powerless? Can they run a browser which does not work by embedding safari? Can they run another browser which runs JS in JIT mode? > Can I no longer "shape my own experience" if I use an iPhone with Safari? Until relatively recently, the answer was "no". And Mozilla was one of the reasons people knew the alternatives world existed and people kept raising this as an issue with both default iPhone and Android browsers. Neither Safari nor Chrome allowed custom ad and trackers blocking.
- scarface74 6y ago
  Right because little companies like Google have a hard time breaking through the noise since no one goes to their web page.... Safari on iOS does in fact allow ad blockers and has for five years.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make regarding Google. Sarcasm doesn't help with readability here. I explicitly mentioned custom ad/tracker blocking because the ad blocking provided by iOS Safari was pretty simplistic. You couldn't block specific cookies, div on a page, or other behaviours as far as I understand.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      Yes you can block a div. If I care about my privacy, why would I want a third party app to have complete access to my browsing history? That’s the problem solved by iOS’s framework. The third party ad blocker has no visibility into your browsing history. Safari is increasingly making it difficult for third party tracking cookies. And Mozilla was one of the reasons people knew the alternatives world existed So it look like you thought that Mozilla who no one outside of geek circles no exist, had more to do with people wanting third party browsers as the default than Google.
      - viraptor 6y ago
        > Mozilla who no one outside of geek circles no exist Let me remind you that 5 years ago FF had ~20% usage on the desktop. It was a commonly known name and even more popular at homes if you remove the enterprise usage.
        scarface74 6y ago
        So if we go back 5 years and exclude the enterprise and exclude mobile devices where the majority of web traffic comes from - Mozilla is relevant?

sokoloff 6y ago

While I agree with your last sentence to some extent, I do believe that having a vibrant, viable Mozilla does serve to empower Internet users in a somewhat similar way as the GPL does. Linux and other GPL software I believe has served as a viable alternative to closed/walled gardens like the Apple ecosystem (and I say that from my Macbook with my iPhone and iPad close at hand). Every time we lament the issues of loss of user power in walled gardens, I think it's substantially true that "it could be even worse" if there were no countervailing forces, like Mozilla.

72deluxe 6y ago
This is a good point. I am just not a huge fan of the vague mission statement.
- falcolas 6y ago
  If your mission statement is too concrete, it can actively prevent you from looking at opportunities. Mission statements are like a wind in the sails of the corporation. It doesn't replace the role of the rudder (that's the job of the C level leaders), but it does lead you in a particular direction.

viraptor 6y ago

> Are all Apple iPhone users powerless? Can they run a browser which does not work by embedding safari? Can they run another browser which runs JS in JIT mode? > Can I no longer "shape my own experience" if I use an iPhone with Safari? Until relatively recently, the answer was "no". And Mozilla was one of the reasons people knew the alternatives world existed and people kept raising this as an issue with both default iPhone and Android browsers. Neither Safari nor Chrome allowed custom ad and trackers blocking.

scarface74 6y ago
Right because little companies like Google have a hard time breaking through the noise since no one goes to their web page.... Safari on iOS does in fact allow ad blockers and has for five years.
- viraptor 6y ago
  I'm not sure what point you're trying to make regarding Google. Sarcasm doesn't help with readability here. I explicitly mentioned custom ad/tracker blocking because the ad blocking provided by iOS Safari was pretty simplistic. You couldn't block specific cookies, div on a page, or other behaviours as far as I understand.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Yes you can block a div. If I care about my privacy, why would I want a third party app to have complete access to my browsing history? That’s the problem solved by iOS’s framework. The third party ad blocker has no visibility into your browsing history. Safari is increasingly making it difficult for third party tracking cookies. And Mozilla was one of the reasons people knew the alternatives world existed So it look like you thought that Mozilla who no one outside of geek circles no exist, had more to do with people wanting third party browsers as the default than Google.
    - viraptor 6y ago
      > Mozilla who no one outside of geek circles no exist Let me remind you that 5 years ago FF had ~20% usage on the desktop. It was a commonly known name and even more popular at homes if you remove the enterprise usage.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        So if we go back 5 years and exclude the enterprise and exclude mobile devices where the majority of web traffic comes from - Mozilla is relevant?