5 ms·

To disagree with the least important part of what you said: > but this is the actual reason why Linux isn't used in the desktop I still believe the actual big

To disagree with the least important part of what you said: > but this is the actual reason why Linux isn't used in the desktop I still believe the actual biggest issue with Linux on the desktop is graphics card drivers (and other aspects of the graphics stack like handling High DPI). Too many machines fail the basic test of 'can I install Linux, plug my screen in and have it behave sensibly'.

zozbot234 6y ago
Just stick to Intel/AMD graphics and it's absolutely fine. Wifi/Bluetooth/LAN support is a bigger issue, tbh. Even audio can be an issue sometimes.
- rkangel 6y ago
  TBH unless you're on Intel you'll still probably have some trouble. That's still a problem though - you shouldn't have to (within reason) select your hardware carefully, ignoring a large part of the consumer market, to have Linux do basic things.
  - samus 6y ago
    If you really want your system to work, you have to. This has been the case since the dawn of the computer age. Nowadays most desktop hardware is intended for Windows users. Therefore, hardware vendors make their stuff work with Windows systems and jump through Microsoft's hoop to get certified. Linux is just irrelevant for many hardware vendors. And without vendor collaboration, it is just plain difficult to write drivers that make full use of the hardware.
- encom 6y ago
  >absolutely fine It's mostly fine. But high DPI, or worse, mixed DPI desktops are somewhere between unusable and sort of tolerable. I dual boot my desktop, and I've given up getting my 4K main screen and old 19" off screen working together in Linux (and I've tried everything). I like moving IRC off to a smaller screen to glance at once in a while, so I never miss an internet argument, but mixing DPI monitors just doesn't work in Linux.
- fhars 6y ago
  I do have to run a non-distribution supported mainline kernel (with some DMKS config changes and some drivers installed from the distro's dev branch) for my relatively recent AMD GPU (RX5500, released at the end of last year) not to freeze seconds after I start chromium, or at least twice a day if I avoid it. That's tolerable for a technical user, but definitely not "absolutely fine".
- paranoidrobot 6y ago
  There's still weird AMD graphics bugs. Built a new Ryzen based system, with a RX 5500 XT, but get weird GPU lockups all the time
mixmastamyk 6y ago
Ubuntu Mate + Intel GFX + 2 4k monitors = Works perfectly™
- ithkuil 6y ago
  Wayland or xorg?
  - mixmastamyk 6y ago
    xorg, but I'm open to wayland in the coming years.
nwallin 6y ago
Graphics card drivers is a solved problem. Intel/AMD "just work". Nvidia works okay-ish if you don't mind closed source drivers and unless it's a card nvidia has dropped support for. In both cases, switching to Windows is not an improvement: all the bad parts of nvidia on Linux also apply to Nvidia on Windows. HiDPI is mostly fine, with the exception of mixing high dpi in xorg. Mixing DPI works in wayland. So I'll grant you that the combination of nvidia+mixing DPI doesn't work, because nvidia's drivers don't support wayland. Otherwise I strongly disagree, and I'm genuinely confused as to why this myth persists. Wrangling drivers on windows is a huge pain. There's no one "update" button I can press to update all my drivers, let alone all my other software. I have to go through the driver manager and manually right click and select "update driver" which frankly nuts. And to update the graphics card I have to periodically go to nvidia's website and check manually? What year is it again? Why doesn't Windows do this for me?
- for_xyz 6y ago
  Windows Update keeps drivers up to date except for ones installed manually.
  - nwallin 6y ago
    It will not update all of them, just some. Clicking through the device manager on my work computer, it seems the driver for "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller" was not up to date, and had not been updated by Windows Update. I never installed this driver manually. If you're on a Windows machine right now, try it. Right click on a bunch of stuff in device manager and hit update driver. Clicking through on my machine and maybe 1/5 have an update. The crazy thing is that it's a really painful process. It takes 15-30 seconds per device just to come back with "no updates" and you can't just select a whole bunch of them and do them all at once: you have to do it one at a time and go through the wizard for everything. And there are simply too many devices to do them all, so all of us are using plenty of outdated drivers. This is an absurd situation, it's 2020. There are third party apps that do this automatically, but I don't know that I trust them.
    - 6y ago

zozbot234 6y ago

Just stick to Intel/AMD graphics and it's absolutely fine. Wifi/Bluetooth/LAN support is a bigger issue, tbh. Even audio can be an issue sometimes.

rkangel 6y ago
TBH unless you're on Intel you'll still probably have some trouble. That's still a problem though - you shouldn't have to (within reason) select your hardware carefully, ignoring a large part of the consumer market, to have Linux do basic things.
- samus 6y ago
  If you really want your system to work, you have to. This has been the case since the dawn of the computer age. Nowadays most desktop hardware is intended for Windows users. Therefore, hardware vendors make their stuff work with Windows systems and jump through Microsoft's hoop to get certified. Linux is just irrelevant for many hardware vendors. And without vendor collaboration, it is just plain difficult to write drivers that make full use of the hardware.
encom 6y ago
>absolutely fine It's mostly fine. But high DPI, or worse, mixed DPI desktops are somewhere between unusable and sort of tolerable. I dual boot my desktop, and I've given up getting my 4K main screen and old 19" off screen working together in Linux (and I've tried everything). I like moving IRC off to a smaller screen to glance at once in a while, so I never miss an internet argument, but mixing DPI monitors just doesn't work in Linux.
fhars 6y ago
I do have to run a non-distribution supported mainline kernel (with some DMKS config changes and some drivers installed from the distro's dev branch) for my relatively recent AMD GPU (RX5500, released at the end of last year) not to freeze seconds after I start chromium, or at least twice a day if I avoid it. That's tolerable for a technical user, but definitely not "absolutely fine".
paranoidrobot 6y ago
There's still weird AMD graphics bugs. Built a new Ryzen based system, with a RX 5500 XT, but get weird GPU lockups all the time

mixmastamyk 6y ago

Ubuntu Mate + Intel GFX + 2 4k monitors = Works perfectly™

ithkuil 6y ago
Wayland or xorg?
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  xorg, but I'm open to wayland in the coming years.

nwallin 6y ago

Graphics card drivers is a solved problem. Intel/AMD "just work". Nvidia works okay-ish if you don't mind closed source drivers and unless it's a card nvidia has dropped support for. In both cases, switching to Windows is not an improvement: all the bad parts of nvidia on Linux also apply to Nvidia on Windows. HiDPI is mostly fine, with the exception of mixing high dpi in xorg. Mixing DPI works in wayland. So I'll grant you that the combination of nvidia+mixing DPI doesn't work, because nvidia's drivers don't support wayland. Otherwise I strongly disagree, and I'm genuinely confused as to why this myth persists. Wrangling drivers on windows is a huge pain. There's no one "update" button I can press to update all my drivers, let alone all my other software. I have to go through the driver manager and manually right click and select "update driver" which frankly nuts. And to update the graphics card I have to periodically go to nvidia's website and check manually? What year is it again? Why doesn't Windows do this for me?

for_xyz 6y ago
Windows Update keeps drivers up to date except for ones installed manually.
- nwallin 6y ago
  It will not update all of them, just some. Clicking through the device manager on my work computer, it seems the driver for "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller" was not up to date, and had not been updated by Windows Update. I never installed this driver manually. If you're on a Windows machine right now, try it. Right click on a bunch of stuff in device manager and hit update driver. Clicking through on my machine and maybe 1/5 have an update. The crazy thing is that it's a really painful process. It takes 15-30 seconds per device just to come back with "no updates" and you can't just select a whole bunch of them and do them all at once: you have to do it one at a time and go through the wizard for everything. And there are simply too many devices to do them all, so all of us are using plenty of outdated drivers. This is an absurd situation, it's 2020. There are third party apps that do this automatically, but I don't know that I trust them.
  - 6y ago