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Hacker News Guidelines

82 points by franze 16y ago

nickolai 16y ago
> Please don't bait other users by inviting them to downmod you. I'd say there is usually at least one post per comment page starting with "I know this will be downvoted, but ...". usually with 15+ points...
- DanielBMarkham 16y ago
  Which is different from baiting. If you say "I know this is going to be downmodded" you're saying that you realize you are taking a contrary opinion. If you say "Downvote me all you want, you bastards, I'm still telling you the truth whether you like it or not" you're baiting. It's an important social skill to acknowledge that something you're saying might be offensive. Lots of times I realize that I'm being undiplomatic, but can't come up with the right words. A disclaimer like that can help keep the thread from descending into flames.
  - nickolai 16y ago
    I disagree. For what I understood, downvoting should correspond to irrelevancy, not disagreement. So I would interpret this disclaimer as "I know that what I say is irrelevant , but..." - wait, why are you saying it then? Nothing wrong with an "I know some people may find this offensive" disclaimer though.
    - larrik 16y ago
      "Should correspond" and "does correspond", in this instance, are not similar.
  - JoachimSchipper 16y ago
    I know this will be downvoted, but saying "I know this will be downvoted" still gets you points. At least, I catch myself thinking "I am stronger than groupthink" in response. Be honest: didn't you? I agree that it can be genuinely appropriate, but let's not pretend it's not effective. ;-)
    - gjm11 16y ago
      For exactly this reason, I have a policy of always downvoting comments that make such comments. Including yours; sorry. I wish enough other people had such a policy to make I-know-this-will-be-downvoted-but an unappealing option.
MichaelApproved 16y ago
Can we add that you shouldn't downmod someone simply because you don't agree with someone has to say? Downmods should be used when breaking a rule in the Guidelines.
- snth 16y ago
  I thought that's what the 'flag' button was for. How is a downmod different?
  - Sandman 16y ago
    I believe that MichaelApproved is reffering to the comments. You cannot flag comments below a certain karma threshold. Actually, I'm not sure if you can flag comments at all? Maybe someone with higher karma could shed some light on this?
    - michael_dorfman 16y ago
      Yes, you can flag comments-- but you need to click on the "link" button for the comment to see the "flag" option. I imagine there is a karma threshold that unlocks this, but I couldn't say what it is.
      - Sandman 16y ago
        Ah yes, I see it now, thank you. I still believe that the 'flag' option should only be used for spam and completely offtopic comments. This is because it 'hurts' more (with regards to your karma) when your comment gets downvoted than when it gets flagged. AFAIK, flagging has no impact on karma, or am I wrong here? So, i see no reason why a person who merely has a different opinion than you should get punished more than the person who is actually breaking HN rules.
        JonnieCache 16y ago
        The ranking algorithm is much more subtle than simply counting karma. Some votes are worth more than others. The exact mechanism is secret, but I believe upvotes on replies to your own comment are counted differently to other people's votes for example, similarly to how one cannot downvote replies to ones own comments. This may obviously be wrong. It is very possible that flags are invisibly counted and this also factors into the ranking algorithm.

82 points by franze 16y ago

> Please don't bait other users by inviting them to downmod you. I'd say there is usually at least one post per comment page starting with "I know this will be downvoted, but ...". usually with 15+ points...

DanielBMarkham 16y ago
Which is different from baiting. If you say "I know this is going to be downmodded" you're saying that you realize you are taking a contrary opinion. If you say "Downvote me all you want, you bastards, I'm still telling you the truth whether you like it or not" you're baiting. It's an important social skill to acknowledge that something you're saying might be offensive. Lots of times I realize that I'm being undiplomatic, but can't come up with the right words. A disclaimer like that can help keep the thread from descending into flames.
- nickolai 16y ago
  I disagree. For what I understood, downvoting should correspond to irrelevancy, not disagreement. So I would interpret this disclaimer as "I know that what I say is irrelevant , but..." - wait, why are you saying it then? Nothing wrong with an "I know some people may find this offensive" disclaimer though.
  - larrik 16y ago
    "Should correspond" and "does correspond", in this instance, are not similar.
- JoachimSchipper 16y ago
  I know this will be downvoted, but saying "I know this will be downvoted" still gets you points. At least, I catch myself thinking "I am stronger than groupthink" in response. Be honest: didn't you? I agree that it can be genuinely appropriate, but let's not pretend it's not effective. ;-)
  - gjm11 16y ago
    For exactly this reason, I have a policy of always downvoting comments that make such comments. Including yours; sorry. I wish enough other people had such a policy to make I-know-this-will-be-downvoted-but an unappealing option.

MichaelApproved 16y ago

Can we add that you shouldn't downmod someone simply because you don't agree with someone has to say? Downmods should be used when breaking a rule in the Guidelines.

snth 16y ago
I thought that's what the 'flag' button was for. How is a downmod different?
- Sandman 16y ago
  I believe that MichaelApproved is reffering to the comments. You cannot flag comments below a certain karma threshold. Actually, I'm not sure if you can flag comments at all? Maybe someone with higher karma could shed some light on this?
  - michael_dorfman 16y ago
    Yes, you can flag comments-- but you need to click on the "link" button for the comment to see the "flag" option. I imagine there is a karma threshold that unlocks this, but I couldn't say what it is.
    - Sandman 16y ago
      Ah yes, I see it now, thank you. I still believe that the 'flag' option should only be used for spam and completely offtopic comments. This is because it 'hurts' more (with regards to your karma) when your comment gets downvoted than when it gets flagged. AFAIK, flagging has no impact on karma, or am I wrong here? So, i see no reason why a person who merely has a different opinion than you should get punished more than the person who is actually breaking HN rules.
      - JonnieCache 16y ago
        The ranking algorithm is much more subtle than simply counting karma. Some votes are worth more than others. The exact mechanism is secret, but I believe upvotes on replies to your own comment are counted differently to other people's votes for example, similarly to how one cannot downvote replies to ones own comments. This may obviously be wrong. It is very possible that flags are invisibly counted and this also factors into the ranking algorithm.