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Why such a dichotomy between intrinsic and extrinsic when any situation is a mix of both ? We do our job to get money, but we won't do any job for that sole pu

by hrktb 6y ago

Why such a dichotomy between intrinsic and extrinsic when any situation is a mix of both ? We do our job to get money, but we won't do any job for that sole purpose. Kids learn chemistry because they are forced to, but they'll find fun bits here and there, they'll ask teachers questions to better understand what they're taught. They won't give a crap about half of the curriculum, but the half they'll remember and will be formative is not guaranteed to be solely from the self-motivated part either. Going further what motivates us to explore also depends on the environment, what is rewarded and what is not, etc. I feel splitting things in two theoretical extremes is close to labelling actions good or bad, it's useful if we don't care about nuance, but has little use once we dive below the surface. > I recommend reading Drive first if you think you disagree. I remember getting that recommendation for "Getting Things Done" ... is Drive much better as a reading experience ? Is it readable for people who're not into self help books in general ?

kqr 6y ago
Because there is some evidence that extrinsic motivation outcompetes intrinsic motivation. In other words, for some reason, they cannot coexist. As soon as adults feel extrinsically motivated, they start to view the situation as an economic transaction, where they will only perform tricks for treats. Typical real-world example of this: if you start charging parents (punishment) for coming late to pick up their kids from daycare, parents will become more late. One can speculate that this might be because they start thinking of it as "paying for extra time" rather than "being a nice human being to the daycare staff." The cases you mention where they do indeed apparently coexist, I suspect (but have no data to support) that the children successfully manage to ignore the extrinsic motivation because the intrinsic drive is so powerful in that instance. It's probably not a sustainable model to rely on that happening, though. Drive is decidedly not a self-help book. It's a summary of the available evidence in support of and against the existence of intrinsic motivation and how it relates to the other types of motivation (extrinsic and physical and emotional needs.)
- hrktb 6y ago
  > In other words, for some reason, they cannot coexist. I would be interested if you have some pointers. I've tried searching a bit but didn't hit anything. Intuitively there is a lot of things that I want intrinsically to do, but I will do a calculation wether I'll have external motivations/rewards to do it and decide from there. For instance I intrincically like programming. It still doesn't mean my intrinsic motivation to program disappeared because I get paid, nor that I won't be exploring thing that I am curious about and try to align external motivation to help me explore them. > if you start charging parents (punishment) for coming late to pick up their kids from daycare, parents will become more late. I know this case study, but as a parent I don't see this on a personal level. To put it on a different case, you get fined for parking on priority/handicaped places, but don't see rich people everywhere abusing priority parking. Some do, but most don't, so at least a majority of them don't see it as just an economic transaction. As usual, reality is more complicated.

by hrktb 6y ago

kqr 6y ago

Because there is some evidence that extrinsic motivation outcompetes intrinsic motivation. In other words, for some reason, they cannot coexist. As soon as adults feel extrinsically motivated, they start to view the situation as an economic transaction, where they will only perform tricks for treats. Typical real-world example of this: if you start charging parents (punishment) for coming late to pick up their kids from daycare, parents will become more late. One can speculate that this might be because they start thinking of it as "paying for extra time" rather than "being a nice human being to the daycare staff." The cases you mention where they do indeed apparently coexist, I suspect (but have no data to support) that the children successfully manage to ignore the extrinsic motivation because the intrinsic drive is so powerful in that instance. It's probably not a sustainable model to rely on that happening, though. Drive is decidedly not a self-help book. It's a summary of the available evidence in support of and against the existence of intrinsic motivation and how it relates to the other types of motivation (extrinsic and physical and emotional needs.)

hrktb 6y ago
> In other words, for some reason, they cannot coexist. I would be interested if you have some pointers. I've tried searching a bit but didn't hit anything. Intuitively there is a lot of things that I want intrinsically to do, but I will do a calculation wether I'll have external motivations/rewards to do it and decide from there. For instance I intrincically like programming. It still doesn't mean my intrinsic motivation to program disappeared because I get paid, nor that I won't be exploring thing that I am curious about and try to align external motivation to help me explore them. > if you start charging parents (punishment) for coming late to pick up their kids from daycare, parents will become more late. I know this case study, but as a parent I don't see this on a personal level. To put it on a different case, you get fined for parking on priority/handicaped places, but don't see rich people everywhere abusing priority parking. Some do, but most don't, so at least a majority of them don't see it as just an economic transaction. As usual, reality is more complicated.