3 ms·

There were others before snowden, like: James bamford https://media.ccc.de/v/31c3_-_6600_-_en_-_saal_2_-_201412281245_-_tell_no-one_-_james_bamford https://medi

There were others before snowden, like: James bamford https://media.ccc.de/v/31c3_-_6600_-_en_-_saal_2_-_201412281245_-_tell_no-one_-_james_bamford https://media.ccc.de/v/31c3_-_6600_-_en_-_saal_2_-_201412281... What snowden did was provide independently verifiable content and details of their activities. His leaks were outdates by half a decade by the time they were public too. Everyone sort of accepted the IC will do shady stuff to stop terrorists after 9/11 because "american lives" so it was a solid conspiracy theory backed (not proven) by facts at the time. We sort of hoped they didn't care enough to snoop into our boring lives.

grey-area 6y ago
If the tools are there, they will be used for evil. When you can surveil and blackmail the entire world, including your political taskmasters, what sort of person will that role attract?
- Spooky23 6y ago
  2016 answered that question.
  - Proziam 6y ago
    The issue far predates 2016. The NSA and the mass-surveillance apparatus has been around far longer, with massive bipartisan support.
  - WhyIsItLikeThis 6y ago
    You mean Hillary Clinton?
  - mc32 6y ago
    That sounds like conspiracy NWO kinds of things, but then again maybe there was a kernel of truth to that. It seems since Kennedy intelligence apparatuses have taken preeminence, perhaps somewhat necessarily though the results seem worse than the alternative of them not being there (Gulf II).
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  > If the tools are there, they will be used for evil. I use a stronger (more specific) form of that heuristic that seems to hold up well in practice: If something evil is within technological possibility, and there is economic gain to be had from doing it, someone will end up doing it. (Note, by "within technological possibility" I don't mean "there are COTS tools available for doing that", but closer to "physics doesn't prohibit it, and we have a good grasp on how it could be done in theory".) I actually first figured out this phrasing of my intuition during Snowden revelations, to explain to myself why my initial reaction was a complete lack of surprise.
hindsightbias 6y ago
Puzzle Palace is from 1982. Everyone knew overseas cables were tapped and many peers joked about big brother listening on their long distance domestic calls. Like life, technology always finds a way. Much of the talk back in the day was not based on reality because it was not based on what tech could practically do. The compute and storage weren’t there. But it was pretty obvious by the late aughts that all the pieces for panopticon were coming together nicely. Tech finds a way.
discreditable 6y ago
NSA surveillance was a joke in the Simpsons Movie in 2007. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2CVTH3_Bf-I https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2CVTH3_Bf-I

grey-area 6y ago

If the tools are there, they will be used for evil. When you can surveil and blackmail the entire world, including your political taskmasters, what sort of person will that role attract?

Spooky23 6y ago
2016 answered that question.
- Proziam 6y ago
  The issue far predates 2016. The NSA and the mass-surveillance apparatus has been around far longer, with massive bipartisan support.
- WhyIsItLikeThis 6y ago
  You mean Hillary Clinton?
- mc32 6y ago
  That sounds like conspiracy NWO kinds of things, but then again maybe there was a kernel of truth to that. It seems since Kennedy intelligence apparatuses have taken preeminence, perhaps somewhat necessarily though the results seem worse than the alternative of them not being there (Gulf II).
TeMPOraL 6y ago
> If the tools are there, they will be used for evil. I use a stronger (more specific) form of that heuristic that seems to hold up well in practice: If something evil is within technological possibility, and there is economic gain to be had from doing it, someone will end up doing it. (Note, by "within technological possibility" I don't mean "there are COTS tools available for doing that", but closer to "physics doesn't prohibit it, and we have a good grasp on how it could be done in theory".) I actually first figured out this phrasing of my intuition during Snowden revelations, to explain to myself why my initial reaction was a complete lack of surprise.

hindsightbias 6y ago

Puzzle Palace is from 1982. Everyone knew overseas cables were tapped and many peers joked about big brother listening on their long distance domestic calls. Like life, technology always finds a way. Much of the talk back in the day was not based on reality because it was not based on what tech could practically do. The compute and storage weren’t there. But it was pretty obvious by the late aughts that all the pieces for panopticon were coming together nicely. Tech finds a way.

discreditable 6y ago

NSA surveillance was a joke in the Simpsons Movie in 2007. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2CVTH3_Bf-I https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2CVTH3_Bf-I