4 ms·

I'm confused by this quote: "And theft is hardly ever reported by companies, because why would they? If magic pixies have nicked their waste cardboard then it

I'm confused by this quote: "And theft is hardly ever reported by companies, because why would they? If magic pixies have nicked their waste cardboard then it means they don't have to pay a firm like mine to come and pick it up. So they are going to keep schtum [quiet]." So... these gangs are wandering around picking up cardbord from business that would have otherwise had to pay for someone to haul it off? Sounds like a public service! Something is fundamentally wrong here.

techslave 6y ago
what is wrong? it costs money to pick up anything. equipment fuel salaries workman’s comp etc. thieves don’t have such costs.
- golem14 6y ago
  Well of course the thieves have a cost, too -- they need to eat, too. But they probably pay no taxes and employ cheap labor and can undercut the official recycler.
snarfy 6y ago
It's the pricing structure. They charge less to take something away if it has some value. The magic pixies are taking the value out. It's a public service until your bill goes up to haul away the trash nobody wants.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  God forbid trash be de-bundled from valuable material and priced accordingly. It might even give companies an incentive to ensure more of their waste stream is recyclable and less of it trash <clutches pearls>.
  - 1-more 6y ago
    The day packaging disposal prices are internalized 100% into sales prices will be very interesting. I doubt it will ever happen on a faster timeline than, say, fully automated luxury gay space communism, but it's worth dreaming about.
    - Forbo 6y ago
      I'm guessing the downvotes are from people who think you are being derogatory. The phrase "fully automated luxury gay space communism" is a meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cultures/fully-automated-luxury-gay-space-communism https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cultures/fully-automated-luxu...
      - gpderetta 6y ago
        Yes, it is basically The Culture.
  - danans 6y ago
    Debundling types of waste pickup results in greater inefficiency because of the high fixed costs associated with pickup (trucks, fuel, fixed cost of employing workers). This is why in most cities, pick up is only handled by one or two private firms contracted with the municipality. That is, unless and until some groundbreaking cost lowering technology comes into existence. Given the physical reality of this work and the slim margins (it's commodities after all), that seems unlikely. The best angle of attack for this problem from the market/technology perspective is finding ways to economically deliver goods without so much cardboard, since manufacturers and retailers have a strong incentive to reduce the cost of delivering products.
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      This is why in most cities, pick up is only handled by one or two private firms contracted with the municipality. Corruption is the only reason this has ever happened anywhere. In the countryside, which due to lower density is more difficult to serve, multiple trash trucks serve multiple customers and there is no problem.
      - danans 6y ago
        > due to lower density is more difficult to serve, multiple trash trucks serve multiple customers and there is no problem. You can't compare the two like that because they are fundamentally different environments. In the countryside it makes more sense to contract separately because trash pickup is less frequent and there are so few people in general - definitely not enough to achieve the economies of scale. The trash pickup trucks there are likely involved in lots of other businesses, too. And even with that, a lot of people in the "countryside" just illegally dump trash. They can get away with that because of the low density and lack of enforcement. In the city, if trash pickup were something that households and business contracted out optionally, a substantial minority of people will not pay for the service at all and instead litter the the high density common environment with their trash. This already happens to a degree, especially with large items and construction debris, and without municipally organized trash removal, it would be even worse.
      - deleted 6y ago
- cheeze 6y ago
  That or society ends up paying the price when you have people willing to work in inhumane conditions (for a gang) rather than someone who can get a legit job in recycling
evolve2k 6y ago
Sounds like the ‘legitimate’ vendor is price gouging and charging on one end for the pick-up and then is being paid a second time on the other end. That sounds like the bigger racket to me. The ‘criminals’ are just reflecting a more true market value, eg that there should be no pickup fee for the value of this commodity. Further; surely this represents the best of ‘gangs’. “We’ve got too many Vigelantes out improving the efficiency of recycling in our city and stealing a product that’s being discarded on our streets. Oh dear.”

techslave 6y ago

what is wrong? it costs money to pick up anything. equipment fuel salaries workman’s comp etc. thieves don’t have such costs.

golem14 6y ago
Well of course the thieves have a cost, too -- they need to eat, too. But they probably pay no taxes and employ cheap labor and can undercut the official recycler.

snarfy 6y ago

It's the pricing structure. They charge less to take something away if it has some value. The magic pixies are taking the value out. It's a public service until your bill goes up to haul away the trash nobody wants.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
God forbid trash be de-bundled from valuable material and priced accordingly. It might even give companies an incentive to ensure more of their waste stream is recyclable and less of it trash <clutches pearls>.
- 1-more 6y ago
  The day packaging disposal prices are internalized 100% into sales prices will be very interesting. I doubt it will ever happen on a faster timeline than, say, fully automated luxury gay space communism, but it's worth dreaming about.
  - Forbo 6y ago
    I'm guessing the downvotes are from people who think you are being derogatory. The phrase "fully automated luxury gay space communism" is a meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cultures/fully-automated-luxury-gay-space-communism https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cultures/fully-automated-luxu...
    - gpderetta 6y ago
      Yes, it is basically The Culture.
- danans 6y ago
  Debundling types of waste pickup results in greater inefficiency because of the high fixed costs associated with pickup (trucks, fuel, fixed cost of employing workers). This is why in most cities, pick up is only handled by one or two private firms contracted with the municipality. That is, unless and until some groundbreaking cost lowering technology comes into existence. Given the physical reality of this work and the slim margins (it's commodities after all), that seems unlikely. The best angle of attack for this problem from the market/technology perspective is finding ways to economically deliver goods without so much cardboard, since manufacturers and retailers have a strong incentive to reduce the cost of delivering products.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    This is why in most cities, pick up is only handled by one or two private firms contracted with the municipality. Corruption is the only reason this has ever happened anywhere. In the countryside, which due to lower density is more difficult to serve, multiple trash trucks serve multiple customers and there is no problem.
    - danans 6y ago
      > due to lower density is more difficult to serve, multiple trash trucks serve multiple customers and there is no problem. You can't compare the two like that because they are fundamentally different environments. In the countryside it makes more sense to contract separately because trash pickup is less frequent and there are so few people in general - definitely not enough to achieve the economies of scale. The trash pickup trucks there are likely involved in lots of other businesses, too. And even with that, a lot of people in the "countryside" just illegally dump trash. They can get away with that because of the low density and lack of enforcement. In the city, if trash pickup were something that households and business contracted out optionally, a substantial minority of people will not pay for the service at all and instead litter the the high density common environment with their trash. This already happens to a degree, especially with large items and construction debris, and without municipally organized trash removal, it would be even worse.
    - deleted 6y ago
cheeze 6y ago
That or society ends up paying the price when you have people willing to work in inhumane conditions (for a gang) rather than someone who can get a legit job in recycling

evolve2k 6y ago

Sounds like the ‘legitimate’ vendor is price gouging and charging on one end for the pick-up and then is being paid a second time on the other end. That sounds like the bigger racket to me. The ‘criminals’ are just reflecting a more true market value, eg that there should be no pickup fee for the value of this commodity. Further; surely this represents the best of ‘gangs’. “We’ve got too many Vigelantes out improving the efficiency of recycling in our city and stealing a product that’s being discarded on our streets. Oh dear.”