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I find it interesting, at a glance, most of the comments here seem to take for granted that everyone uses a dishwasher. I haven't used a dishwasher in about 20

I find it interesting, at a glance, most of the comments here seem to take for granted that everyone uses a dishwasher. I haven't used a dishwasher in about 20 yrs (not bragging, just stating a fact). In those 20 years 13 of them were in Japan, and 7 in SF. In Japan dishwashers are not common AFAIK and when I was in SF partly I was just used to not using one and partly it would have really annoyed my neighbors to run it when I wanted to and scheduling around that made me just mostly forget it was there. I'm curious what other countries they are common/not common.

ashtonkem 6y ago
Probably depends on your local water and energy cost/regulations. Energy star dishwashers are so energy efficient that you have to run them basically empty before it’s better to hand wash. We really should be encouraging more countries to install more dishwashers, counterintuitively.
- greggman3 6y ago
  I probably need to read the studies in more detail but they always seem to mention "a full dishwasher". Back when I used one it was never full, usually at most 20-30% full and yet it uses the same amount of water regardless. In order to fill it I'd need 4x-5x the dishes and only run it once every 4-5 days and hope that it still got things clean after they'd dried that long and that the machine didn't attract insects for the rotting food inside as waited for their to be enough dishes for it to be full.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    That’s not the right comparison to make. The comparison is between the amount of water the dishwasher uses (regardless of load) and how much water washing by hands uses. Dish washers use a surprisingly small amount of water (3 gallons per load on average). So the correct comparison is “do I run the sink long enough to consume more than 3 gallons of water when hand washing?” Chances are it’s slightly more efficient for you to run the dishwasher half full than hand wash.
hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
I actually think the dishwasher and clothes washer/dryer has done more increase quality of life (especially women's) in the past 100 years than any other invention. IMO they are the ultimate in time-saving inventions, taking a task of pure drudgery and cutting down on the time. Only missing piece IMO is a decent clothes folding machine.
- greggman3 6y ago
  I've seen the hans rosling talk on washing machines and that made sense but I don't think the same holds true for diswhwashers. Even at an 8-10 person party it never takes us more than 10 minutes to do all the dishes including pots etc. On a typical night, family of 4 it takes less.
  - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
    > Even at an 8-10 person party it never takes us more than 10 minutes to do all the dishes including pots etc. Wow, you're much faster than I. It takes me probably 10 minutes just to load the dishwasher for a party that big.

ashtonkem 6y ago

Probably depends on your local water and energy cost/regulations. Energy star dishwashers are so energy efficient that you have to run them basically empty before it’s better to hand wash. We really should be encouraging more countries to install more dishwashers, counterintuitively.

greggman3 6y ago
I probably need to read the studies in more detail but they always seem to mention "a full dishwasher". Back when I used one it was never full, usually at most 20-30% full and yet it uses the same amount of water regardless. In order to fill it I'd need 4x-5x the dishes and only run it once every 4-5 days and hope that it still got things clean after they'd dried that long and that the machine didn't attract insects for the rotting food inside as waited for their to be enough dishes for it to be full.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  That’s not the right comparison to make. The comparison is between the amount of water the dishwasher uses (regardless of load) and how much water washing by hands uses. Dish washers use a surprisingly small amount of water (3 gallons per load on average). So the correct comparison is “do I run the sink long enough to consume more than 3 gallons of water when hand washing?” Chances are it’s slightly more efficient for you to run the dishwasher half full than hand wash.

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago

I actually think the dishwasher and clothes washer/dryer has done more increase quality of life (especially women's) in the past 100 years than any other invention. IMO they are the ultimate in time-saving inventions, taking a task of pure drudgery and cutting down on the time. Only missing piece IMO is a decent clothes folding machine.

greggman3 6y ago
I've seen the hans rosling talk on washing machines and that made sense but I don't think the same holds true for diswhwashers. Even at an 8-10 person party it never takes us more than 10 minutes to do all the dishes including pots etc. On a typical night, family of 4 it takes less.
- hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
  > Even at an 8-10 person party it never takes us more than 10 minutes to do all the dishes including pots etc. Wow, you're much faster than I. It takes me probably 10 minutes just to load the dishwasher for a party that big.