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Given the 1C increase in global average temps, should we go back to subsistence farming and 1/10th of the population? I wonder if you went back in time and aske

Given the 1C increase in global average temps, should we go back to subsistence farming and 1/10th of the population? I wonder if you went back in time and asked your ancestors that question. I believe, after you explained to them how you spend most of your day browsing with a magic rectangle, sit in cush air conditioned environments, have access to full motion and interactive media and entertainment, can order nearly anything you like delivered to your door within 48 hours, can travel across continents in mere hours without risking death of dysentery or getting your wagon train raided by bandits, etc. they would ask you what the catch is. 1C hotter? No really...what's the catch?

grugagag 6y ago
But the catch is not well put, it’s not going to be just 1C hotter which in my oppinion is off, but the erosion of the coastlines, the near total melting of polar glaciers round, massive rise in sea levels, mass extinctions of many species, chaos and war amongst the remaining people for the diminishing resources, etcetera. All these for technology and comfort at the hands of humans with enormous costs for everything else. And the potential extinction of our own species in a much shorter/accelerated timespan.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  I don't know if you've seen the latest, but Greenland just had record ice gain during the middle of the ordinary melt season, after an already substantially strong year (and 3 out of the last 4 years have seen substantial gains): http://polarportal.dk/en/greenland/surface-conditions/ http://polarportal.dk/en/greenland/surface-conditions/ we are thousands of years away from polar melting, if ever. We have less war than they did prior to the industrial revolution. Prior to industrial revolution we didn't even have the resources to care about extinctions and they were happening anyways.
  - scroogeydop 6y ago
    Yawn. Same tired arguments.
  - modo_mario 6y ago
    And yet it's glaciers have receded over the past 40 years (and the distance covered is a very deceptive view of total amount of ice lost and you'll find the same everywhere else. 1°C can mean a ton for coral reefs or algae bloom. 1°C can mean a lot for methane retention in permafrost. 1°C has a lot of knock on effects.
    - EricE 6y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF7M-KzjrXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF7M-KzjrXY
      - roelschroeven 6y ago
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEieWJghRNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEieWJghRNY
  - grugagag 6y ago
    I don't think extinctions were happening at the same scale since the industrial revolution and the power humans acquired over the environment. Humans created damage before but it was too small to matter so they got into a symbiosis with the systems around them. After the industrial revolution the scale begun tipping massively. We don't really notice because we can't make the comparison, our lifespan is limited and we are all more or less submerged in our own ideologies. I'm not against technology, I am on the internet too, I have electricity, running water and all the modern facilities and I admit it is quite amazing for us to be living with all these but there is a cost to these and i'm not afraid to feel responsible and ready to scale back. Aside from carbon emissions - which some say it's unavoidable and I halfway agree - we have polluted the planet and spread our plastic things everywhere. Despite knowing this we are still using plastic and discard it with no care like there is no tomorrow. Think about the next generation. Do you have children or grandchildren?
dbtc 6y ago
They might ask: Where are all of the happy people? Why does everyone still have to work so much and why do they all want more than they have?
- barry-cotter 6y ago
  I personally am happy to be alive, which I would not be without antibiotics, and I am happy that infant mortality is negligible rather than approaching 50%. A glancing knowledge of history would have any theist on their knees thanking God they were born now and not earlier. Calvin Coolidge was one of the most powerful men on Earth and his son died of an infected booster acquired playing tennis.
- CalRobert 6y ago
  They might ask why we don't live in human-scale communities where our friends and family are a short walk, for one. Where and when are our festivals, and why do we separate grandparents from grandchildren, to live lonely lives of isolation with the meager substitute of electronic communication for human contact?
totetsu 6y ago
I wonder if you really tried to put yourself in the shoes of one of your ancestors, and imagine the kind of world they lived in and the kind of things they valued would your belief change any? This is a common line of discourse, but it always seems to me to lack empathy beyond this present moment. Could you sell them on how the sausage was made and not just the sizzle?

grugagag 6y ago

But the catch is not well put, it’s not going to be just 1C hotter which in my oppinion is off, but the erosion of the coastlines, the near total melting of polar glaciers round, massive rise in sea levels, mass extinctions of many species, chaos and war amongst the remaining people for the diminishing resources, etcetera. All these for technology and comfort at the hands of humans with enormous costs for everything else. And the potential extinction of our own species in a much shorter/accelerated timespan.

chrisco255 6y ago
I don't know if you've seen the latest, but Greenland just had record ice gain during the middle of the ordinary melt season, after an already substantially strong year (and 3 out of the last 4 years have seen substantial gains): http://polarportal.dk/en/greenland/surface-conditions/ http://polarportal.dk/en/greenland/surface-conditions/ we are thousands of years away from polar melting, if ever. We have less war than they did prior to the industrial revolution. Prior to industrial revolution we didn't even have the resources to care about extinctions and they were happening anyways.
- scroogeydop 6y ago
  Yawn. Same tired arguments.
- modo_mario 6y ago
  And yet it's glaciers have receded over the past 40 years (and the distance covered is a very deceptive view of total amount of ice lost and you'll find the same everywhere else. 1°C can mean a ton for coral reefs or algae bloom. 1°C can mean a lot for methane retention in permafrost. 1°C has a lot of knock on effects.
  - EricE 6y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF7M-KzjrXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF7M-KzjrXY
    - roelschroeven 6y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEieWJghRNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEieWJghRNY
- grugagag 6y ago
  I don't think extinctions were happening at the same scale since the industrial revolution and the power humans acquired over the environment. Humans created damage before but it was too small to matter so they got into a symbiosis with the systems around them. After the industrial revolution the scale begun tipping massively. We don't really notice because we can't make the comparison, our lifespan is limited and we are all more or less submerged in our own ideologies. I'm not against technology, I am on the internet too, I have electricity, running water and all the modern facilities and I admit it is quite amazing for us to be living with all these but there is a cost to these and i'm not afraid to feel responsible and ready to scale back. Aside from carbon emissions - which some say it's unavoidable and I halfway agree - we have polluted the planet and spread our plastic things everywhere. Despite knowing this we are still using plastic and discard it with no care like there is no tomorrow. Think about the next generation. Do you have children or grandchildren?

dbtc 6y ago

They might ask: Where are all of the happy people? Why does everyone still have to work so much and why do they all want more than they have?

barry-cotter 6y ago
I personally am happy to be alive, which I would not be without antibiotics, and I am happy that infant mortality is negligible rather than approaching 50%. A glancing knowledge of history would have any theist on their knees thanking God they were born now and not earlier. Calvin Coolidge was one of the most powerful men on Earth and his son died of an infected booster acquired playing tennis.
CalRobert 6y ago
They might ask why we don't live in human-scale communities where our friends and family are a short walk, for one. Where and when are our festivals, and why do we separate grandparents from grandchildren, to live lonely lives of isolation with the meager substitute of electronic communication for human contact?

totetsu 6y ago

I wonder if you really tried to put yourself in the shoes of one of your ancestors, and imagine the kind of world they lived in and the kind of things they valued would your belief change any? This is a common line of discourse, but it always seems to me to lack empathy beyond this present moment. Could you sell them on how the sausage was made and not just the sizzle?