5 ms·

I don't understand why the tech media is making such a big deal out of this. The FSF clearly allows for this in their licensing. They could charge $100 or $1,00

by icey 18y ago

I don't understand why the tech media is making such a big deal out of this. The FSF clearly allows for this in their licensing. They could charge $100 or $1,000 for this if they felt like it, as long as they are not attempting to close its source.

noodle 18y ago
i think the tech media is making a big deal about it because they're basically scalping the OS, using their big name to make a profit on an item that anyone can request for free. it 'appears' that they're not burning the cds themselves, they're taking the things that ubuntu ships out on request, putting a price tag on them and putting them on the shelves. it seems predatory. but, as you said, its legal. EDIT: jesus tapdancing christ, people, i'm regurgitating the common argument, this is not actually what i believe. calm down.
- scorxn 18y ago
  First, who wants a pressed CD? Maybe your conn sucks. Maybe you don't want to mess with BitTorrent. Maybe you can't burn a disc. Maybe you just get the warm and fuzzies having something official. Or maybe you simply don't know about something until you see it on a shelf. What are your options? Order for free and wait 6-10 weeks. Order on Amazon for $12.99 plus shipping and wait about a week. Drive to Best Buy and pay $20. I don't see how that's predatory. The cost is about convenience, shelf space and distribution. And it's nice to know Ubuntu is competing with Windows someplace physical.
  - LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
    My first copy of Linux, SuSE 6.2, was bought at Best Buy. It came on 6 CDs. There was no way I was going to download that over a 33.6 modem. So long as Best Buy abides by the terms of distribution I say more power to them.
    - bgutierrez 18y ago
      I had a similar experience. My first copy of linux was the RedHat 7 distro that came with "Linux for Dummies", and it cost $20. At the time I didn't have a CD burner or a good connection, so it made sense. It was also nice to have the book, even if it didn't make me much better than being a Dummy.
    - davidw 18y ago
      I downloaded my first copy of slackware onto floppies over a 14.4 modem, and it took something like a week. Now get off my lawn, you damn kids!
- icey 18y ago
  I think your claim that they're somehow using Ubuntu's free CD package is a bit of a stretch. It's a big claim to make without any backing evidence. Don't you think Ubuntu would take notice if Best Buy asked them for 5,000 free copies? Best Buy has been selling Linux distributions for years - I bought a copy of Slackware in like 99 or 2000 because I didn't want to spend the time downloading it; as an added bonus, it came with a manual that I could let my girlfriend use if she wanted to toy around with it.
  - rplevy 18y ago
    Good call, I highly doubt Best Buy is getting free copies from Ubuntu. If they are pressed by Ubuntu they must be paying something for them, and it is perfectly reasonable to sell at a profit because as someone else said they are selling the convenience. But I don't understand why Ubuntu gives away officially pressed copies for free, even to individuals. I think there should be a price to cover the manufacturing costs and to support Ubuntu. The OS itself of course should be free (in the gratis sense, but obviously also the libre sense). I think the same is true for music, which I normally download for free, but will pay for some nice artwork and officially printed CD (or vinyl record), especially if I want to support the artist.
    - icey 18y ago
      It's a loss leader for them. The idea is that if they can get enough people using Ubuntu, then their actual business (Ubuntu support) will grow, because they will have a larger consumer base to support.
    - pavelludiq 18y ago
      i ordered a few kubuntu CDs a while ago and use them to convert my less technical friends to kubuntu. People just like pretty packaged CD's. I would.t buy them though, but its a good idea, from canonicals side to shipped these free CDs. Its like a free demo, if you like it, you buy support. It seems to be working, they are still not out of business, i don't know how profitable they are though.
      - 18y ago
etal 18y ago
The reaction should be positive, if anything. Linux distros have been for sale on computer-store shelves for years; OpenOffice.org shows up sometimes, too. Installfests sometimes ask for a few bucks for the disks if you want to keep them. I believe the GPL requires a "reasonable" price, though, corresponding to shipping/handling/media/convenience. So $50-$100 is justifiable, but $1000+ less so. A court challenge to someone hawking $5,000 Debian licenses to BigCo would probably still be tricky, though, since it's easy to claim the extra cost is for installation support, expertise, etc. Judging by past FSF lawsuits, it seems to be easiest to tag a reseller for failing to include a GPL notice or instructions for getting the source code.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
  My understanding of the GPL is that you can sell the software for any price you wish. However, if you do not include the source code with the product, you must distribute that source code at a reasonable price to all askers.
  - etal 18y ago
    Yes, you're right: Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money? Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must accompany binary-only release.) Does the GPL allow me to charge a fee for downloading the program from my site? Yes. You can charge any fee you wish for distributing a copy of the program. If you distribute binaries by download, you must provide "equivalent access" to download the source -- therefore, the fee to download source may not be greater than the fee to download the binary. (Source: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMone...)
eznet 18y ago
Furthermore, this was apparently a cooperative movement between Canonical, ValueSoft and BestBuy to make a more accessible and user friendly Linux available to the masses. http://blog.canonical.com/?p=18 http://blog.canonical.com/?p=18 Viva La Linux Revolution!

by icey 18y ago

noodle 18y ago

i think the tech media is making a big deal about it because they're basically scalping the OS, using their big name to make a profit on an item that anyone can request for free. it 'appears' that they're not burning the cds themselves, they're taking the things that ubuntu ships out on request, putting a price tag on them and putting them on the shelves. it seems predatory. but, as you said, its legal. EDIT: jesus tapdancing christ, people, i'm regurgitating the common argument, this is not actually what i believe. calm down.

scorxn 18y ago
First, who wants a pressed CD? Maybe your conn sucks. Maybe you don't want to mess with BitTorrent. Maybe you can't burn a disc. Maybe you just get the warm and fuzzies having something official. Or maybe you simply don't know about something until you see it on a shelf. What are your options? Order for free and wait 6-10 weeks. Order on Amazon for $12.99 plus shipping and wait about a week. Drive to Best Buy and pay $20. I don't see how that's predatory. The cost is about convenience, shelf space and distribution. And it's nice to know Ubuntu is competing with Windows someplace physical.
- LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
  My first copy of Linux, SuSE 6.2, was bought at Best Buy. It came on 6 CDs. There was no way I was going to download that over a 33.6 modem. So long as Best Buy abides by the terms of distribution I say more power to them.
  - bgutierrez 18y ago
    I had a similar experience. My first copy of linux was the RedHat 7 distro that came with "Linux for Dummies", and it cost $20. At the time I didn't have a CD burner or a good connection, so it made sense. It was also nice to have the book, even if it didn't make me much better than being a Dummy.
  - davidw 18y ago
    I downloaded my first copy of slackware onto floppies over a 14.4 modem, and it took something like a week. Now get off my lawn, you damn kids!
icey 18y ago
I think your claim that they're somehow using Ubuntu's free CD package is a bit of a stretch. It's a big claim to make without any backing evidence. Don't you think Ubuntu would take notice if Best Buy asked them for 5,000 free copies? Best Buy has been selling Linux distributions for years - I bought a copy of Slackware in like 99 or 2000 because I didn't want to spend the time downloading it; as an added bonus, it came with a manual that I could let my girlfriend use if she wanted to toy around with it.
- rplevy 18y ago
  Good call, I highly doubt Best Buy is getting free copies from Ubuntu. If they are pressed by Ubuntu they must be paying something for them, and it is perfectly reasonable to sell at a profit because as someone else said they are selling the convenience. But I don't understand why Ubuntu gives away officially pressed copies for free, even to individuals. I think there should be a price to cover the manufacturing costs and to support Ubuntu. The OS itself of course should be free (in the gratis sense, but obviously also the libre sense). I think the same is true for music, which I normally download for free, but will pay for some nice artwork and officially printed CD (or vinyl record), especially if I want to support the artist.
  - icey 18y ago
    It's a loss leader for them. The idea is that if they can get enough people using Ubuntu, then their actual business (Ubuntu support) will grow, because they will have a larger consumer base to support.
  - pavelludiq 18y ago
    i ordered a few kubuntu CDs a while ago and use them to convert my less technical friends to kubuntu. People just like pretty packaged CD's. I would.t buy them though, but its a good idea, from canonicals side to shipped these free CDs. Its like a free demo, if you like it, you buy support. It seems to be working, they are still not out of business, i don't know how profitable they are though.
    - 18y ago

etal 18y ago

The reaction should be positive, if anything. Linux distros have been for sale on computer-store shelves for years; OpenOffice.org shows up sometimes, too. Installfests sometimes ask for a few bucks for the disks if you want to keep them. I believe the GPL requires a "reasonable" price, though, corresponding to shipping/handling/media/convenience. So $50-$100 is justifiable, but $1000+ less so. A court challenge to someone hawking $5,000 Debian licenses to BigCo would probably still be tricky, though, since it's easy to claim the extra cost is for installation support, expertise, etc. Judging by past FSF lawsuits, it seems to be easiest to tag a reseller for failing to include a GPL notice or instructions for getting the source code.

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
My understanding of the GPL is that you can sell the software for any price you wish. However, if you do not include the source code with the product, you must distribute that source code at a reasonable price to all askers.
- etal 18y ago
  Yes, you're right: Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money? Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must accompany binary-only release.) Does the GPL allow me to charge a fee for downloading the program from my site? Yes. You can charge any fee you wish for distributing a copy of the program. If you distribute binaries by download, you must provide "equivalent access" to download the source -- therefore, the fee to download source may not be greater than the fee to download the binary. (Source: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMone...)

eznet 18y ago

Furthermore, this was apparently a cooperative movement between Canonical, ValueSoft and BestBuy to make a more accessible and user friendly Linux available to the masses. http://blog.canonical.com/?p=18 http://blog.canonical.com/?p=18 Viva La Linux Revolution!