4 ms·

So did factories not exist prior to the internet? How on earth did people get paid, coordinate shift changes, or ask their boss for time off back in the 1950s?

by parsimo2010 6y ago

So did factories not exist prior to the internet? How on earth did people get paid, coordinate shift changes, or ask their boss for time off back in the 1950s? I think the reaction from GP was likely due to a difference in how people interpret the meaning of the word can't, as in some people mean "I currently use the internet because non-internet solutions are inconvenient" vs "It's literally impossible to do my job without the internet or losing the internet would make my job completely irrelevant(such as being a dev on the Google search team)." I think that even for work from home jobs, if the internet disappeared tomorrow a lot of employers would figure out how to do the important stuff with non-internet solutions, like accepting longer business timelines, couriering paper documents, sending faxes (this might require getting fax machines and landlines for employees, but companies will pay for them if they need to), and having telephone meetings instead of Zoom. Some employers would probably cut employees/tasks that weren't adding as much value as the effort required to shift to non-internet solutions, but I don't think it would be as high as a literal interpretation of this survey would imply.

SAI_Peregrinus 6y ago
What about people working for companies who's policies dictate that certain actions must be done through some internet system (eg time clocks, payroll, scheduling, etc). It might be physically possible to ask someone else to do some of these things for one, but it also might not be allowed. EG if all time off requests including sick days have to be entered in a web scheduling system, then it may not be possible to just do the old "ask the boss for the day off" and have it not be considered an unexcused absence by corporate higher-ups.
- parsimo2010 6y ago
  If you're a remotely decent employee, your manager will figure out a workaround or help you get an exception to the policy. It's hard to find good help, and if you're fired because of a completely inflexible system where you have to clock in with an internet system, then you weren't really fired for the lack of internet, you were fired because management wanted an excuse to fire you.
  - fragmede 6y ago
    For the segment of the workforce that we're taking about, there's no such thing as weekly 1:1's or quarterly skip level meetings (ie I scheduled a meeting with my bosses boss.) "Your manager" is overworked and underpaid, same as you, and has no such luxury, nor any real power. It's just not going to scale if every single one of their direct reports, out of dozens, suddenly needs to sign in by hand because the Internet is down. Kafka isn't relegated to Soviet fairy tales, even top performers get dinged for showing up minutes late. Why do you think the "set your own hours" aspect of being an Uber driver is so compelling? It's not because 100% of middle management are nice happy people who love their jobs. Be glad you've never had to work somewhere where you're disposable, and your boss is forced to fire you for reasons they don't even believe in, like being mere minutes late. If your shift starts at 7:30 AM, you have to be there at 7:00 AM to be in line to have punched into the time clock before it turns 7:30. Making it to work in time to stand in line for the time clock before 7:30 isn't good enough.
dahfizz 6y ago
> I think the reaction from GP was likely due to a difference in how people interpret the meaning of the word can't, as in some people mean "I currently use the internet because non-internet solutions are inconvenient" vs "It's literally impossible to do my job without the internet or losing the internet would make my job completely irrelevant(such as being a dev on the Google search team)." This is why I never pay attention to self reported studies. You could argue they are crafted to make the most clickbait headlines while also saying nothing of worth.
danans 6y ago
> How on earth did people get paid, coordinate shift changes, or ask their boss for time off back in the 1950s? A lot of clerical paper processing jobs and bean counting that don't exist anymore because of computers, and more recently, the internet.
- EricE 6y ago
  Indeed - my dad just happen to retire the same week the eliminated the steno pool since everyone was starting to get computers on their desk (286's with WordPerfect - ah, the days)

SAI_Peregrinus 6y ago

What about people working for companies who's policies dictate that certain actions must be done through some internet system (eg time clocks, payroll, scheduling, etc). It might be physically possible to ask someone else to do some of these things for one, but it also might not be allowed. EG if all time off requests including sick days have to be entered in a web scheduling system, then it may not be possible to just do the old "ask the boss for the day off" and have it not be considered an unexcused absence by corporate higher-ups.

parsimo2010 6y ago
If you're a remotely decent employee, your manager will figure out a workaround or help you get an exception to the policy. It's hard to find good help, and if you're fired because of a completely inflexible system where you have to clock in with an internet system, then you weren't really fired for the lack of internet, you were fired because management wanted an excuse to fire you.
- fragmede 6y ago
  For the segment of the workforce that we're taking about, there's no such thing as weekly 1:1's or quarterly skip level meetings (ie I scheduled a meeting with my bosses boss.) "Your manager" is overworked and underpaid, same as you, and has no such luxury, nor any real power. It's just not going to scale if every single one of their direct reports, out of dozens, suddenly needs to sign in by hand because the Internet is down. Kafka isn't relegated to Soviet fairy tales, even top performers get dinged for showing up minutes late. Why do you think the "set your own hours" aspect of being an Uber driver is so compelling? It's not because 100% of middle management are nice happy people who love their jobs. Be glad you've never had to work somewhere where you're disposable, and your boss is forced to fire you for reasons they don't even believe in, like being mere minutes late. If your shift starts at 7:30 AM, you have to be there at 7:00 AM to be in line to have punched into the time clock before it turns 7:30. Making it to work in time to stand in line for the time clock before 7:30 isn't good enough.

dahfizz 6y ago

> I think the reaction from GP was likely due to a difference in how people interpret the meaning of the word can't, as in some people mean "I currently use the internet because non-internet solutions are inconvenient" vs "It's literally impossible to do my job without the internet or losing the internet would make my job completely irrelevant(such as being a dev on the Google search team)." This is why I never pay attention to self reported studies. You could argue they are crafted to make the most clickbait headlines while also saying nothing of worth.

danans 6y ago

> How on earth did people get paid, coordinate shift changes, or ask their boss for time off back in the 1950s? A lot of clerical paper processing jobs and bean counting that don't exist anymore because of computers, and more recently, the internet.

EricE 6y ago
Indeed - my dad just happen to retire the same week the eliminated the steno pool since everyone was starting to get computers on their desk (286's with WordPerfect - ah, the days)