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What impact does this have on the classification of drivers? When Uber takes $10 from a passenger for a ride, and contracts out a driver to transport the passen

What impact does this have on the classification of drivers? When Uber takes $10 from a passenger for a ride, and contracts out a driver to transport the passenger for $8 then Uber has a booking for $10 and an expense of $8 for contracting out that ride. This doesn't change the fact that the driver is a contractor who sets their own hours and can drive for competitors. Yes, Uber and Lyft are involved in providing transportation services but their involvement is in connecting customers with transportation providers. Calling Uber and Lyft taxi companies makes about as much sense as calling an Expedia an airline. Expedia provides air transport, but through reselling the services of airline companies like Delta or Alaska. Uber and Lyft provide transport by reselling the services of independent contractors. Uber and Lyft are taxi companies as much as Expedia is an airline: they're not.

gamblor956 6y ago
It's a basic principle of contract law that parties can't agree to a valid contract if they don't know the basic fundamental financial terms of the contract, like say, the price. A driver does not know how much a passenger is paying for the ride. The passenger does not know how much the driver is receiving for the ride. Ergo, they cannot have formed a valid contract with each other. On the other hand, the passenger knows how much they are paying Uber, and the driver knows how much Uber is paying them. This indicates that the common relationship is Uber, and that the driver is acting as Uber's agent with respect to the driving services. This is supported by Uber/Lyft treating gross booking as their revenue. It is a long-standing principle of GAAP that if you are collecting money on someone else's behalf as their agent, it's not your revenue. If you are treating the money as your revenue, and their services as an expense, that indicates they are acting as an agent on your behalf with respect to the services/whatever that gave rise to the revenue. Because the driver is acting as Uber's agent, AB5 comes into play to determine whether they are an employee or independent contractor. I don't know why you're fixated on Expedia. Expedia is a reseller, which is a thing that has existed as a legal construct for over a century and has an actual meaning and requirements defined by law. Expedia doesn't resell services, it sells reservations/tickets/etc provided by third parties that represent a right to a specific performance of a specified service at a specified time and place by that third party. Importantly, once a transaction is completed on Expedia, the customer must generally seek customer service from the third party, not Expedia, because Expedia's role in the transaction is completed, and Expedia only provides relief if the third party will not, and that relief is limited to refunding the customer for the amount they paid Expedia. UberLyft don't sell services provided by third parties, they sell a service (transportation or food delivery), and it happens to be performed by third parties on UberLyft's behalf. In contrast to Expedia, none of the participants in the transportation or food delivery service get to select their putative counterpart to the transaction, or the financial terms of the transaction, and after the driver's part is concluded they usually have no further interaction with the passenger as customer service service issues are provided by UberLyft, not the driver. IOW, there are no hallmarks of a business relationship between the driver and customer.
- manfredo 6y ago
  Expedia is a perfect example because they're doing in essence the same thing that Uber and Lyft are doing: reselling transportation services. When you book an Uber what you're doing is informing Uber that you want to go from point a to point b. The Uber finds a third party willing to fulfill that task, and resells this service to the customer at a markup. It's exactly the same thing Expedia does, only in real time. > UberLyft don't sell services provided by third parties, they sell a service (transportation or food delivery), and it happens to be performed by third parties on UberLyft's behalf. Which is exactly why the drivers are contractors. You seem to understand that the drivers are third parties, yet are fixated on irrelevant things like revenue from bookings to try and distract from this fact. That Uber treats all of the money paid by the passengers as revenue does not alter the fact that it's drivers are contractors that set their own hours and can drive for competing services.

gamblor956 6y ago

It's a basic principle of contract law that parties can't agree to a valid contract if they don't know the basic fundamental financial terms of the contract, like say, the price. A driver does not know how much a passenger is paying for the ride. The passenger does not know how much the driver is receiving for the ride. Ergo, they cannot have formed a valid contract with each other. On the other hand, the passenger knows how much they are paying Uber, and the driver knows how much Uber is paying them. This indicates that the common relationship is Uber, and that the driver is acting as Uber's agent with respect to the driving services. This is supported by Uber/Lyft treating gross booking as their revenue. It is a long-standing principle of GAAP that if you are collecting money on someone else's behalf as their agent, it's not your revenue. If you are treating the money as your revenue, and their services as an expense, that indicates they are acting as an agent on your behalf with respect to the services/whatever that gave rise to the revenue. Because the driver is acting as Uber's agent, AB5 comes into play to determine whether they are an employee or independent contractor. I don't know why you're fixated on Expedia. Expedia is a reseller, which is a thing that has existed as a legal construct for over a century and has an actual meaning and requirements defined by law. Expedia doesn't resell services, it sells reservations/tickets/etc provided by third parties that represent a right to a specific performance of a specified service at a specified time and place by that third party. Importantly, once a transaction is completed on Expedia, the customer must generally seek customer service from the third party, not Expedia, because Expedia's role in the transaction is completed, and Expedia only provides relief if the third party will not, and that relief is limited to refunding the customer for the amount they paid Expedia. UberLyft don't sell services provided by third parties, they sell a service (transportation or food delivery), and it happens to be performed by third parties on UberLyft's behalf. In contrast to Expedia, none of the participants in the transportation or food delivery service get to select their putative counterpart to the transaction, or the financial terms of the transaction, and after the driver's part is concluded they usually have no further interaction with the passenger as customer service service issues are provided by UberLyft, not the driver. IOW, there are no hallmarks of a business relationship between the driver and customer.

manfredo 6y ago
Expedia is a perfect example because they're doing in essence the same thing that Uber and Lyft are doing: reselling transportation services. When you book an Uber what you're doing is informing Uber that you want to go from point a to point b. The Uber finds a third party willing to fulfill that task, and resells this service to the customer at a markup. It's exactly the same thing Expedia does, only in real time. > UberLyft don't sell services provided by third parties, they sell a service (transportation or food delivery), and it happens to be performed by third parties on UberLyft's behalf. Which is exactly why the drivers are contractors. You seem to understand that the drivers are third parties, yet are fixated on irrelevant things like revenue from bookings to try and distract from this fact. That Uber treats all of the money paid by the passengers as revenue does not alter the fact that it's drivers are contractors that set their own hours and can drive for competing services.