4 ms·

Why the only alternatives to capitalism that come to mind are always China and Gulags? Is there absolutely nothing else we can imagine? (Maybe if we had some m

Why the only alternatives to capitalism that come to mind are always China and Gulags? Is there absolutely nothing else we can imagine? (Maybe if we had some more leisure we could become more imaginative)

ardy42 6y ago
> Why the only alternatives to capitalism that come to mind are always China and Gulags? Is there absolutely nothing else we can imagine? The answer is that it's effective propaganda. Starvation and gulags are terrible evils. If you can plant the idea in someone's mind that they are what you get when a society questions capitalism, then you've created a zealous foot-soldier for capitalism who feels he's fighting for good against evil. Someone who zealously fights starvation and gulags is fighting for good against evil, but those were mainly the result of particular alternatives to capitalism: radical Soviet-style central planning and dictatorship. That's not the only alternative: there are others, including many that haven't been thought of yet. Also, it's not like capitalism is over and we know how it ends. Maybe it too will find its way to starvation and gulags.
dr_dshiv 6y ago
Burning man. And temples/churches. But yeah, those are the only places where markets are off-limits. If you try to make a totalizing system that forbids people the right to buy or sell (say, on your way to burning man or after church), you'd need gulags to control the social unrest. People like to buy stuff and sell stuff.
- paulryanrogers 6y ago
  Churches are increasingly about merch.
claudiawerner 6y ago
>Why the only alternatives to capitalism that come to mind are always China and Gulags? Is there absolutely nothing else we can imagine? This is precisely Mark Fisher's argument in Capitalist Realism. Capitalist realism dictates that the majority of people have become incapable of imagining something outside of a kind of binary choice. There can't be an alternate future, because we can't imagine it in the first place. This was bessed summed up, rather ironically, by Thatcher: "there is no alternative".
- paulryanrogers 6y ago
  Which is sad because unions and trust busting showed that regulated capitalism was better than the Ayn Rand flavor so popular now. (Yay child gig economy.)

ardy42 6y ago

> Why the only alternatives to capitalism that come to mind are always China and Gulags? Is there absolutely nothing else we can imagine? The answer is that it's effective propaganda. Starvation and gulags are terrible evils. If you can plant the idea in someone's mind that they are what you get when a society questions capitalism, then you've created a zealous foot-soldier for capitalism who feels he's fighting for good against evil. Someone who zealously fights starvation and gulags is fighting for good against evil, but those were mainly the result of particular alternatives to capitalism: radical Soviet-style central planning and dictatorship. That's not the only alternative: there are others, including many that haven't been thought of yet. Also, it's not like capitalism is over and we know how it ends. Maybe it too will find its way to starvation and gulags.

dr_dshiv 6y ago

Burning man. And temples/churches. But yeah, those are the only places where markets are off-limits. If you try to make a totalizing system that forbids people the right to buy or sell (say, on your way to burning man or after church), you'd need gulags to control the social unrest. People like to buy stuff and sell stuff.

paulryanrogers 6y ago
Churches are increasingly about merch.

claudiawerner 6y ago

>Why the only alternatives to capitalism that come to mind are always China and Gulags? Is there absolutely nothing else we can imagine? This is precisely Mark Fisher's argument in Capitalist Realism. Capitalist realism dictates that the majority of people have become incapable of imagining something outside of a kind of binary choice. There can't be an alternate future, because we can't imagine it in the first place. This was bessed summed up, rather ironically, by Thatcher: "there is no alternative".

paulryanrogers 6y ago
Which is sad because unions and trust busting showed that regulated capitalism was better than the Ayn Rand flavor so popular now. (Yay child gig economy.)