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Do you think nationality is the only reason, or do you think they could also genuinely disagree with Huawei's treatment, for reasons that are reasonable if one

Do you think nationality is the only reason, or do you think they could also genuinely disagree with Huawei's treatment, for reasons that are reasonable if one accepts a different point of view?

AsyncAwait 6y ago
I am not Chinese and do think that the amount of accusations is much larger than the body of evidence to support them, I'd guess there are others of similar opinion, some of them Chinese, others not. What I dislike is people generally assuming that I somehow agree with every single thing Huawei, or the CCP for that matter, has ever done.
- totalZero 6y ago
  The body of evidence that Huawei steals intellectual property is quite substantial. If you want to read about it, you can start with these: https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1124996/download https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1124996/downl... https://blogs.cisco.com/news/huawei-and-ciscos-source-code-correcting-the-record https://blogs.cisco.com/news/huawei-and-ciscos-source-code-c... https://amlawdaily.typepad.com/motorolahuawei.pdf https://amlawdaily.typepad.com/motorolahuawei.pdf https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/FINAL-Huawei-ZTE-Infringement-PrsRls-2018-11-16.pdf https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/FINAL-Huaw...
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    I am looking for extensive evidence that they backdoor their equipment and feed data to the CCP. As far as the "intellectual property" goes, it is used by the winners to kick down the ladder they themselves climbed. The U.S. used to steal from Europe while it was developing, now suddenly IP matters a lot. The Japanese used to steal quite a bit of IP, yet Nintendo is now super hawkish to protect its own. Chinese companies will get overly protective of its own IP once they sufficiently develop. All in all, is a well known circle that may signal it's time to rethink how IP is currently structured and enforced around the world.
    - frequentnapper 6y ago
      What? Blatantly stealing corporate secrets by spying or in some cases walking in and stealing hardware is ok now in case of competition? What about enslaving uighurs and making money off of them and then using that money to buy real estate in other countries and pricing the locals out of the housing market?
    - throwaway45349 6y ago
      Huawei doesn't need "backdoors" for the CCP, because they are CCP. The higher-ups are undoubtedly all party members.
      - FooBarWidget 6y ago
        I’m sure a lot of normal employees are CCP members too. CCP has 90 million members after all. Statistically, 1 in 5 Chinese has family members that are CCP member. So I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Are you proposing that we ban 20% of the Chinese population?
        fock 6y ago
        Yes? But oh wait, they are useful (so were the nazis, some thought...)
        AsyncAwait 6y ago
        Am not sure the party membership works the way you seem to imply. Just because someone is a member of the CCP doesn't mean they'll steal tech, spy for China or even agree with the CCP on many issues for that matter. I'd guess it's more like getting some sort of a certificate that makes you more prestigious?
        fock 6y ago
        so if people want to work outside of china, better not get that certificate if you don't want to be held accountable for supporting an authoritorian government. Easy. As for the spying: it's relatively common knowledge that the chinese government really likes to use the fact that someone might have relatives in mainland china to convice people that they should spy for them. So my guess is that people doing this just for the "prestige" don't even need this kind of stuff...
  - blackrock 6y ago
    This is already known. Yes, they might have expropriated technology from 30 years ago, when they first started out. So what? They were caught, and they paid up the price for their malfeasance. They settled outside of court with Cisco. Cisco doesn't even complain about this anymore, since they got a pretty penny from Huawei for it. And they are not the only company that started out doing something shady. There are plenty of other examples of American companies that have done things in their past that are also shady. Why don't you start with something more recent? Like, their 5G technology? Unless of course, your premise is that they also have a time machine and traveled into the future, and stole this 5G technology from Cisco as well.

Do you think nationality is the only reason, or do you think they could also genuinely disagree with Huawei's treatment, for reasons that are reasonable if one accepts a different point of view?

AsyncAwait 6y ago

I am not Chinese and do think that the amount of accusations is much larger than the body of evidence to support them, I'd guess there are others of similar opinion, some of them Chinese, others not. What I dislike is people generally assuming that I somehow agree with every single thing Huawei, or the CCP for that matter, has ever done.

totalZero 6y ago
The body of evidence that Huawei steals intellectual property is quite substantial. If you want to read about it, you can start with these: https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1124996/download https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1124996/downl... https://blogs.cisco.com/news/huawei-and-ciscos-source-code-correcting-the-record https://blogs.cisco.com/news/huawei-and-ciscos-source-code-c... https://amlawdaily.typepad.com/motorolahuawei.pdf https://amlawdaily.typepad.com/motorolahuawei.pdf https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/FINAL-Huawei-ZTE-Infringement-PrsRls-2018-11-16.pdf https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/FINAL-Huaw...
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  I am looking for extensive evidence that they backdoor their equipment and feed data to the CCP. As far as the "intellectual property" goes, it is used by the winners to kick down the ladder they themselves climbed. The U.S. used to steal from Europe while it was developing, now suddenly IP matters a lot. The Japanese used to steal quite a bit of IP, yet Nintendo is now super hawkish to protect its own. Chinese companies will get overly protective of its own IP once they sufficiently develop. All in all, is a well known circle that may signal it's time to rethink how IP is currently structured and enforced around the world.
  - frequentnapper 6y ago
    What? Blatantly stealing corporate secrets by spying or in some cases walking in and stealing hardware is ok now in case of competition? What about enslaving uighurs and making money off of them and then using that money to buy real estate in other countries and pricing the locals out of the housing market?
  - throwaway45349 6y ago
    Huawei doesn't need "backdoors" for the CCP, because they are CCP. The higher-ups are undoubtedly all party members.
    - FooBarWidget 6y ago
      I’m sure a lot of normal employees are CCP members too. CCP has 90 million members after all. Statistically, 1 in 5 Chinese has family members that are CCP member. So I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Are you proposing that we ban 20% of the Chinese population?
      - fock 6y ago
        Yes? But oh wait, they are useful (so were the nazis, some thought...)
        AsyncAwait 6y ago
        Am not sure the party membership works the way you seem to imply. Just because someone is a member of the CCP doesn't mean they'll steal tech, spy for China or even agree with the CCP on many issues for that matter. I'd guess it's more like getting some sort of a certificate that makes you more prestigious?
        fock 6y ago
        so if people want to work outside of china, better not get that certificate if you don't want to be held accountable for supporting an authoritorian government. Easy. As for the spying: it's relatively common knowledge that the chinese government really likes to use the fact that someone might have relatives in mainland china to convice people that they should spy for them. So my guess is that people doing this just for the "prestige" don't even need this kind of stuff...
- blackrock 6y ago
  This is already known. Yes, they might have expropriated technology from 30 years ago, when they first started out. So what? They were caught, and they paid up the price for their malfeasance. They settled outside of court with Cisco. Cisco doesn't even complain about this anymore, since they got a pretty penny from Huawei for it. And they are not the only company that started out doing something shady. There are plenty of other examples of American companies that have done things in their past that are also shady. Why don't you start with something more recent? Like, their 5G technology? Unless of course, your premise is that they also have a time machine and traveled into the future, and stole this 5G technology from Cisco as well.