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> A lot of drivers were sure forced to drive for Uber for lack of other alternatives but that is not Uber's problem. They did not add to the problem. Uber igno

> A lot of drivers were sure forced to drive for Uber for lack of other alternatives but that is not Uber's problem. They did not add to the problem. Uber ignored local laws to force their way into the taxi market without having to compete on the same terms as existing businesses. Uber also classified their drivers as contractors to avoid having to pay fair wages and provide benefits. They've been criticized for this (and many other things) for years. They could have changed course any time, but they didn't want to. They were too busy using internal tools to avoid scrutiny from regulators (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyball https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyball), threatening journalists who wrote articles they didn't like (https://www.theverge.com/2014/11/18/7240215/uber-exec-casually-threatens-sarah-lacy-with-smear-campaign https://www.theverge.com/2014/11/18/7240215/uber-exec-casual...), and trapping drivers with predatory auto loans (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/05/uber-loan-program-debt https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/05/uber-l...). This is 100% Uber's fault.

bgorman 6y ago
Drivers aren't forced to drive for Uber. Anyone driving for Uber is doing it because they want to do so. What makes something a fair wage?
- doomrobo 6y ago
  This is too general an argument. Why did people work in factories where they'd lock the door during the day? Or where there were machines that sometimes ripped people's arms off? Why did this spur regulations on workplace conditions?
  - brippalcharrid 6y ago
    Possibly because the legal industry hadn't yet become commoditized or otherwise widely available or well-disposed to the people getting their arms ripped off in such a way as meant that they could sue the pants off factory owners that failed in their reasonable duty of care. The other less egregious examples would likely have improved gradually over time in line with general standards of living amongst the population, spurred on by competition between employers as they retooled and automated, and sought higher-skilled labor.
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  > Anyone driving for Uber is doing it because they want to do so Or, they have very limited other options. The entire concept of Minimum Wage laws are put in place to address the points you're making. As FDR stated in 1933: > It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. You can argue about what you think a fair wage is, but it has been decided that the absolute floor value you are allowed to argue for is set as the minimum wage. It is unclear, that after accounting for all time spent "driving", and paying all expenses related to driving, that drivers are always paid even minimum wage.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
qeternity 6y ago
So Uber driver’s are too dumb to realize they’re being paid unfair wages? Why would anyone work for such a company if they have better alternatives?
- baron_harkonnen 6y ago
  And if they don't have better alternatives? Sometimes I actively look forward to the tech job market collapsing.
  - qeternity 6y ago
    > And if they don't have better alternatives? Then it would seem applying more pressure to their already unprofitable employer is an unwise move...
    - asdff 6y ago
      Better not ban child labor if it puts kids out of work, right?
      - s1artibartfast 6y ago
        That depends on the environment. In many countries, when you ban legal child labor, the children have to turn to illegal jobs such as prostitution. Most people dont work for uber because it is fun. They are doing it because their other options are worse.
      - benmller313 6y ago
        The fact that we prevent children from consenting to something that may be harmful to them doesn't mean we need a nanny state to protect everyone.
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  I am not going to state that "drivers are too dumb", but as far as I know it is definitely not clear that it is clear to a (potential) driver what they are actually being paid after all expenses. It is not unreasonable that any given person will not immediately understand the full cost of being a driver, including insurance (like ensuring that their existing auto insurance is even valid if you're ever driving for a company), gas, vehicle maintenance, general vehicle wear-and-tear, as well as any required cleaning/upkeep. It's not unreasonable that someone who is driving for Uber/Lyft (especially if, as you claim, they have no better alternatives) is aware of the deferred costs that they are incurring.
DeonPenny 6y ago
THe taxi regulation were terrible and created a terrible environment. It's California lawmakers fault for clearly seeing the writing on the walls and instead of lowering regulations trying to raise them. What kind of backwards person does that.

bgorman 6y ago

Drivers aren't forced to drive for Uber. Anyone driving for Uber is doing it because they want to do so. What makes something a fair wage?

doomrobo 6y ago
This is too general an argument. Why did people work in factories where they'd lock the door during the day? Or where there were machines that sometimes ripped people's arms off? Why did this spur regulations on workplace conditions?
- brippalcharrid 6y ago
  Possibly because the legal industry hadn't yet become commoditized or otherwise widely available or well-disposed to the people getting their arms ripped off in such a way as meant that they could sue the pants off factory owners that failed in their reasonable duty of care. The other less egregious examples would likely have improved gradually over time in line with general standards of living amongst the population, spurred on by competition between employers as they retooled and automated, and sought higher-skilled labor.
nrmitchi 6y ago
> Anyone driving for Uber is doing it because they want to do so Or, they have very limited other options. The entire concept of Minimum Wage laws are put in place to address the points you're making. As FDR stated in 1933: > It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. You can argue about what you think a fair wage is, but it has been decided that the absolute floor value you are allowed to argue for is set as the minimum wage. It is unclear, that after accounting for all time spent "driving", and paying all expenses related to driving, that drivers are always paid even minimum wage.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

qeternity 6y ago

So Uber driver’s are too dumb to realize they’re being paid unfair wages? Why would anyone work for such a company if they have better alternatives?

baron_harkonnen 6y ago
And if they don't have better alternatives? Sometimes I actively look forward to the tech job market collapsing.
- qeternity 6y ago
  > And if they don't have better alternatives? Then it would seem applying more pressure to their already unprofitable employer is an unwise move...
  - asdff 6y ago
    Better not ban child labor if it puts kids out of work, right?
    - s1artibartfast 6y ago
      That depends on the environment. In many countries, when you ban legal child labor, the children have to turn to illegal jobs such as prostitution. Most people dont work for uber because it is fun. They are doing it because their other options are worse.
    - benmller313 6y ago
      The fact that we prevent children from consenting to something that may be harmful to them doesn't mean we need a nanny state to protect everyone.
nrmitchi 6y ago
I am not going to state that "drivers are too dumb", but as far as I know it is definitely not clear that it is clear to a (potential) driver what they are actually being paid after all expenses. It is not unreasonable that any given person will not immediately understand the full cost of being a driver, including insurance (like ensuring that their existing auto insurance is even valid if you're ever driving for a company), gas, vehicle maintenance, general vehicle wear-and-tear, as well as any required cleaning/upkeep. It's not unreasonable that someone who is driving for Uber/Lyft (especially if, as you claim, they have no better alternatives) is aware of the deferred costs that they are incurring.

DeonPenny 6y ago

THe taxi regulation were terrible and created a terrible environment. It's California lawmakers fault for clearly seeing the writing on the walls and instead of lowering regulations trying to raise them. What kind of backwards person does that.