4 ms·

No, a "dependent contractor" is completely different from a regular employee. As an employee you are generally required to work certain hours, or at the very le

No, a "dependent contractor" is completely different from a regular employee. As an employee you are generally required to work certain hours, or at the very least do a certain amount of work in a week, and are paid either hourly or salaried. A dependent contractor, in this example, can set their own hours, start or stop working whenever they want, and gets paid per job rather than per hour or month.

gamblor956 6y ago
Today I learned from the internet that I have been wrong about the advice I have been providing clients for the past decade... /s Employees have contracts, too. Everything you have described as supposed features of dependent contractors are features of independent contractors. Indeed, that last point is one of the biggest historical factors (in the US, and most of Europe) for determining whether a worker is an employee or a contractor. Historically what made a worker an independent contractor instead of an employee was that a worker was economically independent from an employer for their livelihood because they had other clients paying them for the same work. The work independence factors are an outgrowth of that analysis. As to your other points: Many employees can set their own hours. Most white collar employees can (and now do, as a result of COVID). It is hourly workers that can't chose when they work, because they are paid on the basis of time work rather than labor performed. Generally, whether a contractor can set their own hours is determined by the contract. I'm not aware of any contractors that can simply start and stop working during a contracted job without violating their contract, so in that respect your point isn't valid for any worker, employee or otherwise.
- GhostVII 6y ago
  Current classifications are irrelevant because the parent was laying out a new system, in which you could either be an employee, an independent contractor, or a dependent contractor. Under that proposed system, there is a significant difference between a dependent contractor and an employee, because the dependent contractor can choose to stop working whenever they want, and can work for multiple companies, while an employee could not do that. And regardless, I don't know of any hourly employees who can choose to stop working for several weeks without notice, and then start working again whenever they want. That is a major difference between something like Uber, and a normal hourly job. Also hourly people are paid by the hour, while with Uber you are paid by the job.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    A dependent contractor is an employee (if they are an individual). This has been the actual state of the law for decades in the US and EU. Redefining existing terms doesn't change that, and the parent's comment doesn't create a meaningful distinction between the existing classifications. Worse, it creates distinctions that are based on factors that are largely irrelevant to the employee-contractor classification. Today, employees are free to choose to stop working whenever they want (the US has at-will employment) and can work for multiple companies (indeed, most American workers work for multiple companies, especially those who work multiple part-time jobs to make ends meet). I don't know of any contractor that can choose to stop working for several weeks without notice during a contract and get rehired by the client they walked out on. They'd have to find a new client. This is no different from an employee getting terminated for not showing up for several weeks. And with respect to getting paid by the job: while this is one of the big factors for independent contractors, it is not exclusive to them. Employees in the entertainment industry get paid per job (game programmers get paid per game, members of the Hollywood guilds and unions get paid per project, union musicians get paid per recording or tour, etc.)
abeppu 6y ago
How would you compare a "dependent contractor" to a restaurant worker who is largely paid in tips, and where management changes their working schedule frequently and erratically?
- GhostVII 6y ago
  The dependent contractor can stop working without facing reprocussions, the restaurant worker has to work the shifts that they are scheduled or they will get fired. Also the restaurant worker is guaranteed minimum wage, while the dependent contractor is not, since they are not paid hourly.

gamblor956 6y ago

Today I learned from the internet that I have been wrong about the advice I have been providing clients for the past decade... /s Employees have contracts, too. Everything you have described as supposed features of dependent contractors are features of independent contractors. Indeed, that last point is one of the biggest historical factors (in the US, and most of Europe) for determining whether a worker is an employee or a contractor. Historically what made a worker an independent contractor instead of an employee was that a worker was economically independent from an employer for their livelihood because they had other clients paying them for the same work. The work independence factors are an outgrowth of that analysis. As to your other points: Many employees can set their own hours. Most white collar employees can (and now do, as a result of COVID). It is hourly workers that can't chose when they work, because they are paid on the basis of time work rather than labor performed. Generally, whether a contractor can set their own hours is determined by the contract. I'm not aware of any contractors that can simply start and stop working during a contracted job without violating their contract, so in that respect your point isn't valid for any worker, employee or otherwise.

GhostVII 6y ago
Current classifications are irrelevant because the parent was laying out a new system, in which you could either be an employee, an independent contractor, or a dependent contractor. Under that proposed system, there is a significant difference between a dependent contractor and an employee, because the dependent contractor can choose to stop working whenever they want, and can work for multiple companies, while an employee could not do that. And regardless, I don't know of any hourly employees who can choose to stop working for several weeks without notice, and then start working again whenever they want. That is a major difference between something like Uber, and a normal hourly job. Also hourly people are paid by the hour, while with Uber you are paid by the job.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  A dependent contractor is an employee (if they are an individual). This has been the actual state of the law for decades in the US and EU. Redefining existing terms doesn't change that, and the parent's comment doesn't create a meaningful distinction between the existing classifications. Worse, it creates distinctions that are based on factors that are largely irrelevant to the employee-contractor classification. Today, employees are free to choose to stop working whenever they want (the US has at-will employment) and can work for multiple companies (indeed, most American workers work for multiple companies, especially those who work multiple part-time jobs to make ends meet). I don't know of any contractor that can choose to stop working for several weeks without notice during a contract and get rehired by the client they walked out on. They'd have to find a new client. This is no different from an employee getting terminated for not showing up for several weeks. And with respect to getting paid by the job: while this is one of the big factors for independent contractors, it is not exclusive to them. Employees in the entertainment industry get paid per job (game programmers get paid per game, members of the Hollywood guilds and unions get paid per project, union musicians get paid per recording or tour, etc.)

abeppu 6y ago

How would you compare a "dependent contractor" to a restaurant worker who is largely paid in tips, and where management changes their working schedule frequently and erratically?

GhostVII 6y ago
The dependent contractor can stop working without facing reprocussions, the restaurant worker has to work the shifts that they are scheduled or they will get fired. Also the restaurant worker is guaranteed minimum wage, while the dependent contractor is not, since they are not paid hourly.