6 ms·

Belarus election: Police use live fire on protesters in Brest

187 points by selfsimilar 6y ago

ivan_gammel 6y ago
I recommend checking @nexta_live in Telegram to understand the scale of protests and the scale of violence there. It’s in Russian and Belarusian language, but there are plenty of videos of what’s happening now.
- fullstop 6y ago
  https://t.me/s/nexta_live https://t.me/s/nexta_live if you wish to preview the channel before joining.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- mzs 6y ago
  This feed is well curated too: https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan
refurb 6y ago
No doubt Putin will be along soon and generously decide to lend a hand and restore order.
- vikramkr 6y ago
  The relationship is already quite close https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State
  - biggestlou 6y ago
    It's significantly more complicated than that: https://www.euronews.com/2020/08/07/ties-between-russia-and-belarus-cool-ahead-of-presidential-elections https://www.euronews.com/2020/08/07/ties-between-russia-and-...
    - vikramkr 6y ago
      I'm aware, and the wiki goes into the complications as well. I'm suggesting that, along the lines of what the parent comment did, putin might find this an opportunity to strengthen the union agreement, perhaps make good on some of those promises to increase unity to increase influence
- doytch 6y ago
  Putin and Pooh Bear have both already congratulated Lukashenko on his electoral "victory." Wouldn't be surprised if they helped their friend.
- ivan_gammel 6y ago
  Won’t happen. He still needs to figure out what to do with Khabarovsk and he is not politically capable of taking down another Prague Spring.
  - dongvsascript 6y ago
    of course it will. belarus is more of a russian republic, not its own country. they speak russian -most people don't know the belorussian language, which is just redneck russian. it's an open border with russia. you know how you're driving in illinois and there's just a sign on the side 'welcome to indiana?' welcome to belarus. they also have a co-mingled army, as in not just joint drills but belarus soldiers taking orders from russian generals. in fact, in case of a war, the agreement is russia commands the belarussian forces. so, dictatorship notes aside, it would absolutely be proper and expected for putin to help the government of belarus, as per their agreements. source: am russian, went there for work for several years as an adult, have been to belarus, have friends from belarus.
    - 0ld 6y ago
      > belorussian language, which is just redneck russian along with the rest of the comment, this passage nicely emphasizes the common russian colonialist attitude towards belarus
      - dongvsascript 6y ago
        ah, yes, us americans with our common russian colonialist attitude towards belarus. i'm quite agaist russia actually. it is quite funny you think belarus, bordering russia, which used to be russia not too long ago, is a fully autonomous and separate country. as far as the language. you know how rednecks speak english? what if the north and south separated into separate countries. the south was less industrious, had worse education, was about 30 years back in technology and law. that's russia and belarus. and it does absolutely sound like the russian a farmer speaks. to the point i can understand it easily spoken and in print. belarus and russia (and ukraine) are literally the same people, the slavs. me, having learned proper french living in versailles, can say canada speaks redneck french. it sounds like that from the accent. this apparently means the french have a colonialist attitude towards canada. how about, stop spreading your anti-russian narrative with fake information. there's plenty of real bad things to make russia look bad.
- baybal2 6y ago
  > No doubt Putin will be along soon and generously decide to lend a hand and restore order. That's pretty much in the working if the EU will not do first. If not, the world will see Russian tank armies on the border with Poland again.
  - me_me_me 6y ago
    Thats already true, Poland has a border with Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad_Oblast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad_Oblast This whole rhetoric of scary Russian tanks and missiles ready to attack is stupid. Russian needs europe to sell its oil and gas to and get luxury goods and food from. Do you think their chinese friends would approve? EU is third economical block in the world China would take a hit not able to trade with EU as freely if there is a war with russia. Any military conflict with EU would be an economical collapse of Russia. So let's stop scaring people with this pale faded red scare.
    - baybal2 6y ago
      > This whole rhetoric of scary Russian tanks and missiles ready to attack is stupid. It is not stupid. Kaliningrad is a small city surrounded with Polish tank regiments just in case of such scenario. Defending a long front is much harder. > Any military conflict with EU would be an economical collapse of Russia. Russia had already been in the perpetual collapsing state economically since the end of sky high oil prices. Russian regime doesn't seem to mind at all its people eating grass. Russian military goal was, and is to invade Europe. Georgia, Ukraine, Syria, Montenegro, Libya were all parts of the chain leading to it. It is undisputable.
      - me_me_me 6y ago
        US military planed to invade Canada and UK. That's what military does. They have free time so they make plans for all occasions. Military is not government. > Kaliningrad is a small city surrounded with Polish tank regiments just in case of such scenario. And what else would you propose they do. Of course they will place them there, that doesn't mean threat of invasion is high. > Russian regime doesn't seem to mind at all its people eating grass. That's not how it works. Putin is not a moron and he clearly tries to create image of powerful imperial russia. Its a show for the 'people eating grass' because if too many of them start complaining he will loose power.
- fsflover 6y ago
  Some evidence of that: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2020/07/29/belarus-arrested-33-russian-mercenaries-outside-of-minsk-today-here-s-what-we-know-so-far https://meduza.io/en/feature/2020/07/29/belarus-arrested-33-...
l332mn 6y ago
EU considering sanctions against Belarus, but simultaneously has no response to the US heavy-handedness and unconstitutional handling of the protest movement there. This is hypocrisy. The EU don't care for the Belarusian citizens, they just want the government toppled, which would create another Ukraine, a civil war. NATO is continuously creeping towards Russia creating an ever more dangerous situation for everyone involved.
- ivan_gammel 6y ago
  There’s no reason for civil war in Belarus. The country is too tired of the ex-president and the only reason he’s still in power is a clique of generals of security services, who will be held accountable for their crimes if opposition wins. You not knowing that apparently do not care much too.
  - l332mn 6y ago
    If you think there will not be a violent reaction to a coup in Belarus you are very wrong. People outside Ukraine thought that the Ukrainian coup would represent a peaceful transition once completed, due to the unpopularity of Yanukovych. It resulted in a bloody civil war and the rise of ultra-nationalism, because coups represent much more than a transition of the presidency, they represent a fundamental shift in governmental power and the interests it serves.
    - fit2rule 6y ago
      It is really very difficult to have a rational discussion about world affairs without pointing out the hypocrisy of the West - but you have definitely struck a chord here. People forget that sanctions are, literally, an act of war. The haste by which sanctions are called for, by the pseudo-intellectually decadent - wealthy, privileged, distant - is truly something to behold. It has long been thought that, when World War 3 finally comes to the West (which it started in 2003), it will be through civil unrest over what we have done to the world. We can't hide our burning piles of rubble for much longer. But do you think Belarussians have what it takes to defend their country from external influence, such as was the case with Ukraine? Belarussia seems to have a very weak media structure... isn't this kind of necessary, to prevent external actors having undue, often times very violent, influence over society?
pmoriarty 6y ago
Recently there were reports of major internet outages in Belarus, coinciding with the election.[1] Trying to hide this sort of violence may be one reason for such outages. [1] - https://netblocks.org/reports/internet-disruption-hits-belarus-on-election-day-YAE2jKB3 https://netblocks.org/reports/internet-disruption-hits-belar...
- fsflover 6y ago
  Corresponding discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24120054 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24120054, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24129059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24129059
rurban 6y ago
This is actually good news. The only chance are widespread strikes, and strikes can only be fueled by something dramatic kind this. Rigged elections were expected, the question is if strikes are following. The weather is perfect for strikes.

187 points by selfsimilar 6y ago

I recommend checking @nexta_live in Telegram to understand the scale of protests and the scale of violence there. It’s in Russian and Belarusian language, but there are plenty of videos of what’s happening now.

fullstop 6y ago
https://t.me/s/nexta_live https://t.me/s/nexta_live if you wish to preview the channel before joining.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
mzs 6y ago
This feed is well curated too: https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan

refurb 6y ago

No doubt Putin will be along soon and generously decide to lend a hand and restore order.

vikramkr 6y ago
The relationship is already quite close https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State
- biggestlou 6y ago
  It's significantly more complicated than that: https://www.euronews.com/2020/08/07/ties-between-russia-and-belarus-cool-ahead-of-presidential-elections https://www.euronews.com/2020/08/07/ties-between-russia-and-...
  - vikramkr 6y ago
    I'm aware, and the wiki goes into the complications as well. I'm suggesting that, along the lines of what the parent comment did, putin might find this an opportunity to strengthen the union agreement, perhaps make good on some of those promises to increase unity to increase influence
doytch 6y ago
Putin and Pooh Bear have both already congratulated Lukashenko on his electoral "victory." Wouldn't be surprised if they helped their friend.
ivan_gammel 6y ago
Won’t happen. He still needs to figure out what to do with Khabarovsk and he is not politically capable of taking down another Prague Spring.
- dongvsascript 6y ago
  of course it will. belarus is more of a russian republic, not its own country. they speak russian -most people don't know the belorussian language, which is just redneck russian. it's an open border with russia. you know how you're driving in illinois and there's just a sign on the side 'welcome to indiana?' welcome to belarus. they also have a co-mingled army, as in not just joint drills but belarus soldiers taking orders from russian generals. in fact, in case of a war, the agreement is russia commands the belarussian forces. so, dictatorship notes aside, it would absolutely be proper and expected for putin to help the government of belarus, as per their agreements. source: am russian, went there for work for several years as an adult, have been to belarus, have friends from belarus.
  - 0ld 6y ago
    > belorussian language, which is just redneck russian along with the rest of the comment, this passage nicely emphasizes the common russian colonialist attitude towards belarus
    - dongvsascript 6y ago
      ah, yes, us americans with our common russian colonialist attitude towards belarus. i'm quite agaist russia actually. it is quite funny you think belarus, bordering russia, which used to be russia not too long ago, is a fully autonomous and separate country. as far as the language. you know how rednecks speak english? what if the north and south separated into separate countries. the south was less industrious, had worse education, was about 30 years back in technology and law. that's russia and belarus. and it does absolutely sound like the russian a farmer speaks. to the point i can understand it easily spoken and in print. belarus and russia (and ukraine) are literally the same people, the slavs. me, having learned proper french living in versailles, can say canada speaks redneck french. it sounds like that from the accent. this apparently means the french have a colonialist attitude towards canada. how about, stop spreading your anti-russian narrative with fake information. there's plenty of real bad things to make russia look bad.
baybal2 6y ago
> No doubt Putin will be along soon and generously decide to lend a hand and restore order. That's pretty much in the working if the EU will not do first. If not, the world will see Russian tank armies on the border with Poland again.
- me_me_me 6y ago
  Thats already true, Poland has a border with Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad_Oblast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad_Oblast This whole rhetoric of scary Russian tanks and missiles ready to attack is stupid. Russian needs europe to sell its oil and gas to and get luxury goods and food from. Do you think their chinese friends would approve? EU is third economical block in the world China would take a hit not able to trade with EU as freely if there is a war with russia. Any military conflict with EU would be an economical collapse of Russia. So let's stop scaring people with this pale faded red scare.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    > This whole rhetoric of scary Russian tanks and missiles ready to attack is stupid. It is not stupid. Kaliningrad is a small city surrounded with Polish tank regiments just in case of such scenario. Defending a long front is much harder. > Any military conflict with EU would be an economical collapse of Russia. Russia had already been in the perpetual collapsing state economically since the end of sky high oil prices. Russian regime doesn't seem to mind at all its people eating grass. Russian military goal was, and is to invade Europe. Georgia, Ukraine, Syria, Montenegro, Libya were all parts of the chain leading to it. It is undisputable.
    - me_me_me 6y ago
      US military planed to invade Canada and UK. That's what military does. They have free time so they make plans for all occasions. Military is not government. > Kaliningrad is a small city surrounded with Polish tank regiments just in case of such scenario. And what else would you propose they do. Of course they will place them there, that doesn't mean threat of invasion is high. > Russian regime doesn't seem to mind at all its people eating grass. That's not how it works. Putin is not a moron and he clearly tries to create image of powerful imperial russia. Its a show for the 'people eating grass' because if too many of them start complaining he will loose power.
fsflover 6y ago
Some evidence of that: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2020/07/29/belarus-arrested-33-russian-mercenaries-outside-of-minsk-today-here-s-what-we-know-so-far https://meduza.io/en/feature/2020/07/29/belarus-arrested-33-...

l332mn 6y ago

EU considering sanctions against Belarus, but simultaneously has no response to the US heavy-handedness and unconstitutional handling of the protest movement there. This is hypocrisy. The EU don't care for the Belarusian citizens, they just want the government toppled, which would create another Ukraine, a civil war. NATO is continuously creeping towards Russia creating an ever more dangerous situation for everyone involved.

ivan_gammel 6y ago
There’s no reason for civil war in Belarus. The country is too tired of the ex-president and the only reason he’s still in power is a clique of generals of security services, who will be held accountable for their crimes if opposition wins. You not knowing that apparently do not care much too.
- l332mn 6y ago
  If you think there will not be a violent reaction to a coup in Belarus you are very wrong. People outside Ukraine thought that the Ukrainian coup would represent a peaceful transition once completed, due to the unpopularity of Yanukovych. It resulted in a bloody civil war and the rise of ultra-nationalism, because coups represent much more than a transition of the presidency, they represent a fundamental shift in governmental power and the interests it serves.
  - fit2rule 6y ago
    It is really very difficult to have a rational discussion about world affairs without pointing out the hypocrisy of the West - but you have definitely struck a chord here. People forget that sanctions are, literally, an act of war. The haste by which sanctions are called for, by the pseudo-intellectually decadent - wealthy, privileged, distant - is truly something to behold. It has long been thought that, when World War 3 finally comes to the West (which it started in 2003), it will be through civil unrest over what we have done to the world. We can't hide our burning piles of rubble for much longer. But do you think Belarussians have what it takes to defend their country from external influence, such as was the case with Ukraine? Belarussia seems to have a very weak media structure... isn't this kind of necessary, to prevent external actors having undue, often times very violent, influence over society?

pmoriarty 6y ago

Recently there were reports of major internet outages in Belarus, coinciding with the election.[1] Trying to hide this sort of violence may be one reason for such outages. [1] - https://netblocks.org/reports/internet-disruption-hits-belarus-on-election-day-YAE2jKB3 https://netblocks.org/reports/internet-disruption-hits-belar...

fsflover 6y ago
Corresponding discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24120054 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24120054, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24129059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24129059

rurban 6y ago

This is actually good news. The only chance are widespread strikes, and strikes can only be fueled by something dramatic kind this. Rigged elections were expected, the question is if strikes are following. The weather is perfect for strikes.