5 ms·

"A JVM Does What?"

166 points by fogus 16y ago

afhof 16y ago
Is there a non video version of this?
- kqr2 16y ago
  Slides from his Java Symposium presentation which probably covers similar material: http://www.slideshare.net/javasymposium/a-jvm-does-that-presented-by-dr-cliff-click http://www.slideshare.net/javasymposium/a-jvm-does-that-pres... Title is actually: A JVM Does That?
- saucerful 16y ago
  For what it's worth, I don't think I could possibly read as quickly AND effectively as he talks. What a great speaker! I learned a lot.
  - shasta 16y ago
    I haven't watched the video yet, but will be shocked if it contains ideas that it would take 52 minutes to absorb in written form.
- kgermino 16y ago
  And can we please get back to tagging videos with [video] at the end of the title? If you submit a link to a video or pdf, please warn us by appending [video] or [pdf] to the title. [0] This is the second all-video submission today (the other being the Job's interview) that wasn't tagged. It's not that big of a deal but when your on a mobile connection and you spend a minute waiting for a video you can't even watch to finish loading it can be really annoying. [0] http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Murkin 16y ago
Anyone care to post a short jist on what this 52min video includes ?
- Swannie 16y ago
  "Here are some common misconceptions about the JVM and how it works, and a few interesting titbits. These are some things people want in, or to believe about the JVM. Here are some things which we would do to fix the odd bits, and make things a bit nicer." The slides are here: http://www.azulsystems.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/2011_WhatDoesJVMDo.pdf http://www.azulsystems.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/2...
dger 16y ago
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BlazingFrog 16y ago
Very interesting talk for the Java geek in me. Side note: blogspot's UI has gotten really old.
- Tomek_ 16y ago
  Re: side note, that's why they announced this: http://buzz.blogger.com/2011/03/fresh-new-perspectives-for-your-blog.html http://buzz.blogger.com/2011/03/fresh-new-perspectives-for-y...
wcsun 16y ago
Considering GC and concurrency issues, this talk is good for people making language choices on the JVM. In the end, he said he personally thinks STM is not a good way to program concurrency. And, I think immutable data is good for GC.
- gtani 16y ago
  http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/5c7a962cc72c1fe7 http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/... (orig. post deleted): http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6l7cb/clojure_stms_vs_locks/ http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6l7cb/clojure_s... http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163552.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163552.aspx
  - eru 16y ago
    Or look at how STM is handled in Haskell, where it's arguably more pure.
    - gtani 16y ago
      http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4070 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4070 (the optimistic vs. rollbacks distinction http://liyang.hu/pub-model.xhtml http://liyang.hu/pub-model.xhtml http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/daqho/is_transactional_programming_actually_easier/ http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/daqho/is_transa... FWIW, why .NET can't have it: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4069 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4069
  - pwnguin 16y ago
    I went to the version of this talk he gave at Java Symposium; his argument was that it can work for Clojure, where immutability and functional purity resolve some of the problems. Perhaps these discussions moved his position slightly. Or maybe he just learned Clojure people are pedantic and it's more time efficient to agree rather than argue with them.
    - 16y ago
bensummers 16y ago
If you're interested in this, you might also be interested in his high-scale-lib library: lock free maps and other data structures for the JVM. http://sourceforge.net/projects/high-scale-lib/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/high-scale-lib/
swah 16y ago
Its by Cliff Click, from Azul Systems. (the "pauseless GC" guy :)
mdemare 16y ago
He says he doesn't like bytecode for expressing programs, but he never mentioned what else would work better. I'm intrigued, does anyone know more?
- Gotttzsche 16y ago
  i was wondering about that too. he later mentioned that the format is bad and that .net bytecode has a better format, so i think maybe he didnt mean bytecode in general but the format of jvm-bytecode.

"A JVM Does What?"

166 points by fogus 16y ago

afhof 16y ago

Is there a non video version of this?

kqr2 16y ago
Slides from his Java Symposium presentation which probably covers similar material: http://www.slideshare.net/javasymposium/a-jvm-does-that-presented-by-dr-cliff-click http://www.slideshare.net/javasymposium/a-jvm-does-that-pres... Title is actually: A JVM Does That?
saucerful 16y ago
For what it's worth, I don't think I could possibly read as quickly AND effectively as he talks. What a great speaker! I learned a lot.
- shasta 16y ago
  I haven't watched the video yet, but will be shocked if it contains ideas that it would take 52 minutes to absorb in written form.
kgermino 16y ago
And can we please get back to tagging videos with [video] at the end of the title? If you submit a link to a video or pdf, please warn us by appending [video] or [pdf] to the title. [0] This is the second all-video submission today (the other being the Job's interview) that wasn't tagged. It's not that big of a deal but when your on a mobile connection and you spend a minute waiting for a video you can't even watch to finish loading it can be really annoying. [0] http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Murkin 16y ago

Anyone care to post a short jist on what this 52min video includes ?

Swannie 16y ago
"Here are some common misconceptions about the JVM and how it works, and a few interesting titbits. These are some things people want in, or to believe about the JVM. Here are some things which we would do to fix the odd bits, and make things a bit nicer." The slides are here: http://www.azulsystems.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/2011_WhatDoesJVMDo.pdf http://www.azulsystems.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/2...

dger 16y ago

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BlazingFrog 16y ago

Very interesting talk for the Java geek in me. Side note: blogspot's UI has gotten really old.

Tomek_ 16y ago
Re: side note, that's why they announced this: http://buzz.blogger.com/2011/03/fresh-new-perspectives-for-your-blog.html http://buzz.blogger.com/2011/03/fresh-new-perspectives-for-y...

wcsun 16y ago

Considering GC and concurrency issues, this talk is good for people making language choices on the JVM. In the end, he said he personally thinks STM is not a good way to program concurrency. And, I think immutable data is good for GC.

gtani 16y ago
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/5c7a962cc72c1fe7 http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/... (orig. post deleted): http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6l7cb/clojure_stms_vs_locks/ http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6l7cb/clojure_s... http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163552.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163552.aspx
- eru 16y ago
  Or look at how STM is handled in Haskell, where it's arguably more pure.
  - gtani 16y ago
    http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4070 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4070 (the optimistic vs. rollbacks distinction http://liyang.hu/pub-model.xhtml http://liyang.hu/pub-model.xhtml http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/daqho/is_transactional_programming_actually_easier/ http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/daqho/is_transa... FWIW, why .NET can't have it: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4069 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4069
- pwnguin 16y ago
  I went to the version of this talk he gave at Java Symposium; his argument was that it can work for Clojure, where immutability and functional purity resolve some of the problems. Perhaps these discussions moved his position slightly. Or maybe he just learned Clojure people are pedantic and it's more time efficient to agree rather than argue with them.
  - 16y ago

bensummers 16y ago

If you're interested in this, you might also be interested in his high-scale-lib library: lock free maps and other data structures for the JVM. http://sourceforge.net/projects/high-scale-lib/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/high-scale-lib/

swah 16y ago

Its by Cliff Click, from Azul Systems. (the "pauseless GC" guy :)

mdemare 16y ago

He says he doesn't like bytecode for expressing programs, but he never mentioned what else would work better. I'm intrigued, does anyone know more?

Gotttzsche 16y ago
i was wondering about that too. he later mentioned that the format is bad and that .net bytecode has a better format, so i think maybe he didnt mean bytecode in general but the format of jvm-bytecode.