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This doesn't really make sense to me. Only 30% of Americans have jobs where they can't work from home? Truck drivers, factory workers, cashiers, taxi drivers, e

This doesn't really make sense to me. Only 30% of Americans have jobs where they can't work from home? Truck drivers, factory workers, cashiers, taxi drivers, etc all make up less than 30% of America? I dont buy that. Smells like selection bias to me... are they interviewing people already at home because their work allows it? They do mention - > There are certainly some folks who work in healthcare, grocery stores, auto shops, etc., where you wouldn't think a strong home internet connection was a requirement. But I still remain skeptical that so many claim they require home internet. At the very least work email can be done on a phone.

rabuse 6y ago
Yeah, seems odd. I remember seeing that retail is still the #1 employer not too long ago, and that doesn't require internet.
- OnlyOneCannolo 6y ago
  Unless you don't clock out on your timesheet until you get home ...
- foepys 6y ago
  Switching shifts with coworkers is so much easier with the internet. I know of a large German company that has a "shift market" where employees can switch shifts as long as certain constraints are fulfilled. You can either switch with coworkers directly or "auction off" your shift by giving a timeframe where you want your new shift to be and select the most convenient from the coworkers that answered. If I were an employee there, I'd say that I need an internet connection at home.
- asdff 6y ago
  It does now. No one is going back to paper books and paper schedules.
mywittyname 6y ago
You can work as a factory worker and still require internet access for scheduling days off, getting payroll information, etc. In fact, it's likely that people not working desk jobs are those most in need of home internet access, as they might not be provided such at work.
- zdragnar 6y ago
  For most of those functions a smart phone or a local library would suffice. I read "can't do our jobs" as being "literally cannot complete work or perform on-paid-time duties".
  - pwinnski 6y ago
    A smart phone is still an internet connection at home. It's possible that some of the 70% are not considering their local library, though.
    - inetknght 6y ago
      > A smart phone is still an internet connection at home. I don't use my personal phone for work. Anyone who does use their personal phone for work is being abused by their employer.
      - Splognosticus 6y ago
        This is an overly broad statement. Everywhere I've worked where I'm expected to be reachable by phone offered a stipend to pay for the service. And all of them were respectful of my personal time. An abusive employer is going to make unreasonable demands of you, regardless of whether you use your personal phone for work.
        inetknght 6y ago
        > Everywhere I've worked where I'm expected to be reachable by phone offered a stipend to pay for the service. Well your experience is more the exception than the rule today given my friends, family, and own anecdata. > An abusive employer is going to make unreasonable demands of you, regardless of whether you use your personal phone for work. Let me know when there's enough employers that most people without negotiating leverage can actually be employed by one that's not abusive.
tmpz22 6y ago
Seems like they underestimate everything that the internet powers, chat apps and email perhaps.
blakesterz 6y ago
My guess would be it's because "Americans Say" and what people SAY in answering these types of things isn't exactly the same as the reality of what they REALLY need.
- dmurray 6y ago
  Yeah. Surely a lot of people who "need" it for incidental tasks like checking their shifts (mentioned already about 5 times by commenters) or a payroll site would adapt if they didn't have home internet or especially, if home internet wasn't a reasonable expectation. In my last several white-collar jobs I could have got by without home internet with only small inconvenience.
finnthehuman 6y ago
>Only 30% of Americans have jobs where they can't work from home? You're misreading. It's not that 70% can work entirely from home, it's 70% can't never work from home. I don't believe that number either, but that's a different topic. >At the very least work email can be done on a phone. So, the internet connection that they use at home is different from "home internet" for the purposes of this article? If you really want to spit that hair, what is the meaningful distinction?
inetknght 6y ago
> This doesn't really make sense to me. It doesn't make sense to me either. > Only 30% of Americans have jobs where they can't work from home? "Only" implies you think 30% is too low? You think more Americans can work without home internet? I'm surprised it's as high as 30%. I think a lot more Americans can't work without home internet. > Truck drivers, factory workers, cashiers, taxi drivers, etc all make up less than 30% of America? I dont buy that. I'm not familiar with truck drivers. But I can easily see that they would need the internet to simply receive a phone call to alert them that a route has been contracted by their contracting company. Or to engage in a route marketplace. That's going to necessitate not only "home" internet, but probably also mobile internet too. I'm not familiar with factory workers. But I hear they're overworked. And if they don't have home internet that often means they also don't have a way to get in contact with their bosses outside of the factory. Cashiers need the internet because their employer's scheduling system is available on the internet. Not only that, but their schedules are often produced last-minute. Are you saying that a cashier must go to the retail premise and risk getting infected just to check to see whether they're scheduled for the day? Taxi drivers... absolutely need the internet to work. Can you imagine being in a taxi today without having the ability to pay via your credit card? That's absurd. What about emergency services like fire fighters, EMS, doctors ... are you saying that they don't need home internet? I'm saying you're wrong. The modern world has moved into a place where we're hyper connected. Everyone's employers communicate on the internet. Lack of home internet hinders everyone's ability to work.
- sharkweek 6y ago
  Truck drivers 100% need home internet to get jobs, broker loads, fill out the required paperwork, etc. Worked in the industry for a bit, while it used to be a dinosaur, it's actually super tech-focused now for many.
- blobbers 6y ago
  There was a time when you paid by credit card using a mechanical copy of the credit card and data was manually entered at the end of the day. It sadly doesn't work well with new style credit cards that don't have raised numbers, but for that you could just take a picture. It's not ideal, but it can work. The internet has made a lot of things happen smoother or faster, and some things happen in "real time" that previously could not, but as a whole... life without it wasn't horrible. Kids used to write notes to each other instead of text messages. Cashiers used to look at a schedule that was manually created and posted on the break room door on sundays. If you weren't working that day, you'd ask a friend to check for you.
esperent 6y ago
You could make the same argument about electricity, or a phone line, or hell, anything except for a roof, food, water, and a mode of transport to work. The thing is, for modern life, you do need more than basic necessities. You do need electricity, you do need a telephone, and, more and more, you do need the internet. You don't need these things, at home, to get your actual job done, even if you're a programmer, in most cases. You need them to do all the other things, like pay bills, use bank accounts, and so on.
nine_k 6y ago
I read it so: of all the people who can work from home at all, 70% require an internet connection. Factory workers or construction workers can't do any work from home at all. But maybe people who do custom tailoring, or small-scale bakery like custom wedding cakes, can still WFH without a broadband connection being constantly up.
ChefboyOG 6y ago
I think there's three key things here: 1. The survey found that only 63.8% said their job required a home internet connection pre pandemic, so it's closer to 40% of Americans with jobs that don't require home internet. 2. Sending emails from your phone at home is for all intents and purposes the same as a home internet connection. If you were no longer able to connect to the internet from within your home, you wouldn't be able to send those emails i.e. do your job. 3. There is a difference between jobs that can theoretically be done without home internet access, but that in practice require it. For example, you could theoretically drive a truck without any home internet. But, in practice, most truckers find loads and contracts via load boards, which you obviously need an internet connection to access. With all of those considerations, the percentages don't seem too fishy to me. I buy that pre-pandemic, roughly 64% of Americans were in jobs that required them to connect to the internet from home for at least some work-related function, even if it is not the core of their work.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- nostrademons 6y ago
  It sounds like the survey was done post-pandemic and then asked respondents whether they could've done their jobs without the Internet pre-pandemic. This is a very different survey: it means that the ~20-30% of Americans who lost their jobs in the pandemic are not included in the survey. This is almost half of the labor force (which has been hovering around 60-65% of Americans since 2009). I'd suspect that there is strong selection bias, in that truckers, factory workers, cashiers, taxi drivers etc. were a lot more likely to lose their jobs in the pandemic and the ones that kept them are much more likely to work for "modern" companies that do require Internet. If you assume 37% of Americans are not in the labor force, 23% were unemployed and hence not in the survey, that implies 70% of the 40% remaining (~28%) require a home Internet connection, with about 3% being those whose employers recently switched to requiring Internet. That seems a lot more reasonable.
  - Retric 6y ago
    US employment rate dropped from 61.1% to 51.3%. So, around 17% of the working population lost their jobs. However, that includes many people outside of direct customer facing jobs.
hannob 6y ago
> Truck drivers, factory workers, cashiers, taxi drivers, etc all make up less than 30% of America? I can easily imagine that all of those could require an Internet connection. Could be something as simple as getting information crucial for your job exclusively via electronic communication.
paxys 6y ago
Most minimum wage workers today use scheduling apps for shifts/entering time sheets, have online training, accept job documents/agreements online etc. So having a stable internet connection is absolutely a requirement for these jobs.
nikanj 6y ago
You’re confusing ”requires internet at home” with ”requires nothing else”. For example nurses have a very hands-on jobs, but have to login to a portal to see their shifts for the coming week
sandworm101 6y ago
>> Truck drivers, factory workers, cashiers, taxi drivers, And why would you assume that such jobs don't require internet access? Shift workers are sent their schedules via email. They talk to their bosses after hours via email. Factory workers often complete mandatory training (health/safety certs etc) from home. Just as once upon a time each employee having a phone number was once optional, basic administration of any vocation now requires internet access. I'd say that monastic orders probably can go without, but I equally assume that there is an abbot out there somewhere staring at a screen and mumbling about how slow the wifi gets on sunday mornings.
jariel 6y ago
Truckers book loads over the internet. Service workers use the internet to see what their shift is going to be, respond to work issues/surveys. Etc.
deleted 6y ago
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mulmen 6y ago
My neighbor works in a factory and was able to do some work from home during covid.
throwawaygh 6y ago
> At the very least work email can be done on a phone. The question was whether respondents needed to use the internet at home, not whether they need a physical wire going to their home. Needing LTE/3G at home to do work email = needing a home internet connection. > Truck drivers, factory workers, cashiers, ... For all of these, a lot of shift scheduling is done online these days. Truck Drivers: Many are independent contractors. So, "one-man business owner and also sole employee" might be a better model and makes it abundantly clear that an internet connection is required. Cashiers: there are vanishingly few people who are full-time cashiers and don't have a second or third job. Possible their other job requires a home internet connection. Factory work: Most folks I know who work in factories tend to hop from job to job every year or two. In other words, they're constantly in job search mode. Job searches happen online. Healthcare: Most healthcare professions require CEUs, which can often be done at least partially online and always require a home internet connection if taken seriously.
anshulitbhu 6y ago
You are mistaking home internet being a _necessity_, with home internet being _sufficient_. The fact that they need home internet does not mean they can work from home.
jeffchien 6y ago
> But I still remain skeptical that so many claim they require home internet. At the very least work email can be done on a phone. The graph says "internet at home", not "home internet". If that is the exact wording of the question asked, then some responders might reasonably interpret that their mobile plan would count. I admit it is a bit confusing that the article says "home internet connection" in other places. It would be nice if the survey question and article were more specific.
ixtli 6y ago
The administration part of a truck drivers job likely requires a personal internet connection these days.
chaosharmonic 6y ago
Oh hey, a thing I have background in! - Restaurants and retail businesses also rely heavily on Internet, particularly for handling things like loyalty and credit card processing. - Since many of those businesses take orders online, they also need an incoming connection in order to receive them. (You can still do this over the phone if it's just takeout, obv, but it doesn't scale nearly as well, especially at peak.) - Additionally, lots of back-office software for managing them is now cloud-based, which (depending on your scope) can impact basic operational functions like supply chains, scheduling, etc.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

rabuse 6y ago

Yeah, seems odd. I remember seeing that retail is still the #1 employer not too long ago, and that doesn't require internet.

OnlyOneCannolo 6y ago
Unless you don't clock out on your timesheet until you get home ...
foepys 6y ago
Switching shifts with coworkers is so much easier with the internet. I know of a large German company that has a "shift market" where employees can switch shifts as long as certain constraints are fulfilled. You can either switch with coworkers directly or "auction off" your shift by giving a timeframe where you want your new shift to be and select the most convenient from the coworkers that answered. If I were an employee there, I'd say that I need an internet connection at home.
asdff 6y ago
It does now. No one is going back to paper books and paper schedules.

mywittyname 6y ago

You can work as a factory worker and still require internet access for scheduling days off, getting payroll information, etc. In fact, it's likely that people not working desk jobs are those most in need of home internet access, as they might not be provided such at work.

zdragnar 6y ago
For most of those functions a smart phone or a local library would suffice. I read "can't do our jobs" as being "literally cannot complete work or perform on-paid-time duties".
- pwinnski 6y ago
  A smart phone is still an internet connection at home. It's possible that some of the 70% are not considering their local library, though.
  - inetknght 6y ago
    > A smart phone is still an internet connection at home. I don't use my personal phone for work. Anyone who does use their personal phone for work is being abused by their employer.
    - Splognosticus 6y ago
      This is an overly broad statement. Everywhere I've worked where I'm expected to be reachable by phone offered a stipend to pay for the service. And all of them were respectful of my personal time. An abusive employer is going to make unreasonable demands of you, regardless of whether you use your personal phone for work.
      - inetknght 6y ago
        > Everywhere I've worked where I'm expected to be reachable by phone offered a stipend to pay for the service. Well your experience is more the exception than the rule today given my friends, family, and own anecdata. > An abusive employer is going to make unreasonable demands of you, regardless of whether you use your personal phone for work. Let me know when there's enough employers that most people without negotiating leverage can actually be employed by one that's not abusive.

tmpz22 6y ago

Seems like they underestimate everything that the internet powers, chat apps and email perhaps.

blakesterz 6y ago

My guess would be it's because "Americans Say" and what people SAY in answering these types of things isn't exactly the same as the reality of what they REALLY need.

dmurray 6y ago
Yeah. Surely a lot of people who "need" it for incidental tasks like checking their shifts (mentioned already about 5 times by commenters) or a payroll site would adapt if they didn't have home internet or especially, if home internet wasn't a reasonable expectation. In my last several white-collar jobs I could have got by without home internet with only small inconvenience.

finnthehuman 6y ago

>Only 30% of Americans have jobs where they can't work from home? You're misreading. It's not that 70% can work entirely from home, it's 70% can't never work from home. I don't believe that number either, but that's a different topic. >At the very least work email can be done on a phone. So, the internet connection that they use at home is different from "home internet" for the purposes of this article? If you really want to spit that hair, what is the meaningful distinction?

inetknght 6y ago

> This doesn't really make sense to me. It doesn't make sense to me either. > Only 30% of Americans have jobs where they can't work from home? "Only" implies you think 30% is too low? You think more Americans can work without home internet? I'm surprised it's as high as 30%. I think a lot more Americans can't work without home internet. > Truck drivers, factory workers, cashiers, taxi drivers, etc all make up less than 30% of America? I dont buy that. I'm not familiar with truck drivers. But I can easily see that they would need the internet to simply receive a phone call to alert them that a route has been contracted by their contracting company. Or to engage in a route marketplace. That's going to necessitate not only "home" internet, but probably also mobile internet too. I'm not familiar with factory workers. But I hear they're overworked. And if they don't have home internet that often means they also don't have a way to get in contact with their bosses outside of the factory. Cashiers need the internet because their employer's scheduling system is available on the internet. Not only that, but their schedules are often produced last-minute. Are you saying that a cashier must go to the retail premise and risk getting infected just to check to see whether they're scheduled for the day? Taxi drivers... absolutely need the internet to work. Can you imagine being in a taxi today without having the ability to pay via your credit card? That's absurd. What about emergency services like fire fighters, EMS, doctors ... are you saying that they don't need home internet? I'm saying you're wrong. The modern world has moved into a place where we're hyper connected. Everyone's employers communicate on the internet. Lack of home internet hinders everyone's ability to work.

sharkweek 6y ago
Truck drivers 100% need home internet to get jobs, broker loads, fill out the required paperwork, etc. Worked in the industry for a bit, while it used to be a dinosaur, it's actually super tech-focused now for many.
blobbers 6y ago
There was a time when you paid by credit card using a mechanical copy of the credit card and data was manually entered at the end of the day. It sadly doesn't work well with new style credit cards that don't have raised numbers, but for that you could just take a picture. It's not ideal, but it can work. The internet has made a lot of things happen smoother or faster, and some things happen in "real time" that previously could not, but as a whole... life without it wasn't horrible. Kids used to write notes to each other instead of text messages. Cashiers used to look at a schedule that was manually created and posted on the break room door on sundays. If you weren't working that day, you'd ask a friend to check for you.

esperent 6y ago

You could make the same argument about electricity, or a phone line, or hell, anything except for a roof, food, water, and a mode of transport to work. The thing is, for modern life, you do need more than basic necessities. You do need electricity, you do need a telephone, and, more and more, you do need the internet. You don't need these things, at home, to get your actual job done, even if you're a programmer, in most cases. You need them to do all the other things, like pay bills, use bank accounts, and so on.

nine_k 6y ago

I read it so: of all the people who can work from home at all, 70% require an internet connection. Factory workers or construction workers can't do any work from home at all. But maybe people who do custom tailoring, or small-scale bakery like custom wedding cakes, can still WFH without a broadband connection being constantly up.

ChefboyOG 6y ago

I think there's three key things here: 1. The survey found that only 63.8% said their job required a home internet connection pre pandemic, so it's closer to 40% of Americans with jobs that don't require home internet. 2. Sending emails from your phone at home is for all intents and purposes the same as a home internet connection. If you were no longer able to connect to the internet from within your home, you wouldn't be able to send those emails i.e. do your job. 3. There is a difference between jobs that can theoretically be done without home internet access, but that in practice require it. For example, you could theoretically drive a truck without any home internet. But, in practice, most truckers find loads and contracts via load boards, which you obviously need an internet connection to access. With all of those considerations, the percentages don't seem too fishy to me. I buy that pre-pandemic, roughly 64% of Americans were in jobs that required them to connect to the internet from home for at least some work-related function, even if it is not the core of their work.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
nostrademons 6y ago
It sounds like the survey was done post-pandemic and then asked respondents whether they could've done their jobs without the Internet pre-pandemic. This is a very different survey: it means that the ~20-30% of Americans who lost their jobs in the pandemic are not included in the survey. This is almost half of the labor force (which has been hovering around 60-65% of Americans since 2009). I'd suspect that there is strong selection bias, in that truckers, factory workers, cashiers, taxi drivers etc. were a lot more likely to lose their jobs in the pandemic and the ones that kept them are much more likely to work for "modern" companies that do require Internet. If you assume 37% of Americans are not in the labor force, 23% were unemployed and hence not in the survey, that implies 70% of the 40% remaining (~28%) require a home Internet connection, with about 3% being those whose employers recently switched to requiring Internet. That seems a lot more reasonable.
- Retric 6y ago
  US employment rate dropped from 61.1% to 51.3%. So, around 17% of the working population lost their jobs. However, that includes many people outside of direct customer facing jobs.

hannob 6y ago

> Truck drivers, factory workers, cashiers, taxi drivers, etc all make up less than 30% of America? I can easily imagine that all of those could require an Internet connection. Could be something as simple as getting information crucial for your job exclusively via electronic communication.

paxys 6y ago

Most minimum wage workers today use scheduling apps for shifts/entering time sheets, have online training, accept job documents/agreements online etc. So having a stable internet connection is absolutely a requirement for these jobs.

nikanj 6y ago

You’re confusing ”requires internet at home” with ”requires nothing else”. For example nurses have a very hands-on jobs, but have to login to a portal to see their shifts for the coming week

sandworm101 6y ago

>> Truck drivers, factory workers, cashiers, taxi drivers, And why would you assume that such jobs don't require internet access? Shift workers are sent their schedules via email. They talk to their bosses after hours via email. Factory workers often complete mandatory training (health/safety certs etc) from home. Just as once upon a time each employee having a phone number was once optional, basic administration of any vocation now requires internet access. I'd say that monastic orders probably can go without, but I equally assume that there is an abbot out there somewhere staring at a screen and mumbling about how slow the wifi gets on sunday mornings.

jariel 6y ago

Truckers book loads over the internet. Service workers use the internet to see what their shift is going to be, respond to work issues/surveys. Etc.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mulmen 6y ago

My neighbor works in a factory and was able to do some work from home during covid.

throwawaygh 6y ago

> At the very least work email can be done on a phone. The question was whether respondents needed to use the internet at home, not whether they need a physical wire going to their home. Needing LTE/3G at home to do work email = needing a home internet connection. > Truck drivers, factory workers, cashiers, ... For all of these, a lot of shift scheduling is done online these days. Truck Drivers: Many are independent contractors. So, "one-man business owner and also sole employee" might be a better model and makes it abundantly clear that an internet connection is required. Cashiers: there are vanishingly few people who are full-time cashiers and don't have a second or third job. Possible their other job requires a home internet connection. Factory work: Most folks I know who work in factories tend to hop from job to job every year or two. In other words, they're constantly in job search mode. Job searches happen online. Healthcare: Most healthcare professions require CEUs, which can often be done at least partially online and always require a home internet connection if taken seriously.

anshulitbhu 6y ago

You are mistaking home internet being a _necessity_, with home internet being _sufficient_. The fact that they need home internet does not mean they can work from home.

jeffchien 6y ago

> But I still remain skeptical that so many claim they require home internet. At the very least work email can be done on a phone. The graph says "internet at home", not "home internet". If that is the exact wording of the question asked, then some responders might reasonably interpret that their mobile plan would count. I admit it is a bit confusing that the article says "home internet connection" in other places. It would be nice if the survey question and article were more specific.

ixtli 6y ago

The administration part of a truck drivers job likely requires a personal internet connection these days.

chaosharmonic 6y ago

Oh hey, a thing I have background in! - Restaurants and retail businesses also rely heavily on Internet, particularly for handling things like loyalty and credit card processing. - Since many of those businesses take orders online, they also need an incoming connection in order to receive them. (You can still do this over the phone if it's just takeout, obv, but it doesn't scale nearly as well, especially at peak.) - Additionally, lots of back-office software for managing them is now cloud-based, which (depending on your scope) can impact basic operational functions like supply chains, scheduling, etc.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]