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Why wouldn't they fit squarely into the category of contractors? They set their own hours and use their own equipment. The fact that the platform sets dynamic p

Why wouldn't they fit squarely into the category of contractors? They set their own hours and use their own equipment. The fact that the platform sets dynamic prices doesn't change this. Contracts to do work in times with more demand command higher prices in plenty of other industries. Caterers probable charge more during the holidays, right?

jonahhorowitz 6y ago
The requirements for contractors are (known as the ABC test)[0][1]: 1) Part A of the test requires that the worker is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact; and 2) Part B of the test requires that the worker performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business; and 3) Part C of the test requires that the worker is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as the work performed. 4) The contractor must actually be in business for themselves. [0] - https://www.californiaemploymentlawreport.com/2019/03/understanding-the-abc-test-for-independent-contractors-in-california/ https://www.californiaemploymentlawreport.com/2019/03/unders... [1] - https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_independentcontractor.htm https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_independentcontractor.htm
- manfredo 6y ago
  1) Uber drivers are totally at liberty to set their own hours, and drive in location of their choice ( destination are chosen by Uber, but a worker is at liberty to drive in San Jose one day and San Francisco the next). 2) The drivers are outside of Uber's business. Uber is a software and technology company, not a taxi service. 3) Drivers are independent workers, in business for themselves. 4) Same as above. With these criteria it unambiguously seems to be the case that ride share drivers are independent contractors. I struggle to see how one could make the case that they are employees.
  - nostoc 6y ago
    > The drivers are outside of Uber's business. Uber is a software and technology company, not a taxi service. That is some serious mental gymnastic.
    - manfredo 6y ago
      No, it's not. Is Apple in the business of producing records because it runs iTunes? No, it's in the business of software (and hardware), and some of that software is used to sell music. Trying to claim that a software service to run a marketplace to sell X is the same thing as actually running a business of building or doing X takes some mental gymnastics.
      - gamblor956 6y ago
        It takes some seriously bizarre mental gymnastics to call Uber/Lyft "marketplaces" when they don't provide any of the hallmarks of a marketplace, such as the option to select between multiple "stores" (aka drivers) or let drivers compete by offering their own prices. Even more importantly, with an actual marketplace, you don't transact with the marketplace--you transact with the stores. And with respect to your Apple analogy: Apple doesn't claim to be in the business of making music, just selling it. Uber/Lyft do claim to be in the transportation/food delivery businesses, and it's literally all over their legally binding SEC filings that the provide to investors every few weeks. If it quacks like a duck, and it walks like a duck, and it swims like a duck, you can call it a digital platform all you like but it's still a duck.
        manfredo 6y ago
        No, the Apple analogy is entirely accurate. Apple is in the music business. But it's not in the business of making music, it's in the business of selling music. Apple is in the music business in the same vein that a record shop is in the music business. Uber is in the personal transportation business, at a broader high level. It's in the business of operating a market for rides. Just like how a record store doesn't actually compose and record the music it sells, Uber isn't in the business of actually driving people around. That task is fulfilled by independent workers, who use the platform Uber and Lyft operate to find customers. Can you point out in said SEC filings where Uber says, "our company's primary business is operating motor vehicles to transport customers"? As in, actually driving their own cars? Because from what I've read they're very careful about describing their business as operating a marketplace for drivers to conduct their own businesses.

jonahhorowitz 6y ago

The requirements for contractors are (known as the ABC test)[0][1]: 1) Part A of the test requires that the worker is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact; and 2) Part B of the test requires that the worker performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business; and 3) Part C of the test requires that the worker is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as the work performed. 4) The contractor must actually be in business for themselves. [0] - https://www.californiaemploymentlawreport.com/2019/03/understanding-the-abc-test-for-independent-contractors-in-california/ https://www.californiaemploymentlawreport.com/2019/03/unders... [1] - https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_independentcontractor.htm https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_independentcontractor.htm

manfredo 6y ago
1) Uber drivers are totally at liberty to set their own hours, and drive in location of their choice ( destination are chosen by Uber, but a worker is at liberty to drive in San Jose one day and San Francisco the next). 2) The drivers are outside of Uber's business. Uber is a software and technology company, not a taxi service. 3) Drivers are independent workers, in business for themselves. 4) Same as above. With these criteria it unambiguously seems to be the case that ride share drivers are independent contractors. I struggle to see how one could make the case that they are employees.
- nostoc 6y ago
  > The drivers are outside of Uber's business. Uber is a software and technology company, not a taxi service. That is some serious mental gymnastic.
  - manfredo 6y ago
    No, it's not. Is Apple in the business of producing records because it runs iTunes? No, it's in the business of software (and hardware), and some of that software is used to sell music. Trying to claim that a software service to run a marketplace to sell X is the same thing as actually running a business of building or doing X takes some mental gymnastics.
    - gamblor956 6y ago
      It takes some seriously bizarre mental gymnastics to call Uber/Lyft "marketplaces" when they don't provide any of the hallmarks of a marketplace, such as the option to select between multiple "stores" (aka drivers) or let drivers compete by offering their own prices. Even more importantly, with an actual marketplace, you don't transact with the marketplace--you transact with the stores. And with respect to your Apple analogy: Apple doesn't claim to be in the business of making music, just selling it. Uber/Lyft do claim to be in the transportation/food delivery businesses, and it's literally all over their legally binding SEC filings that the provide to investors every few weeks. If it quacks like a duck, and it walks like a duck, and it swims like a duck, you can call it a digital platform all you like but it's still a duck.
      - manfredo 6y ago
        No, the Apple analogy is entirely accurate. Apple is in the music business. But it's not in the business of making music, it's in the business of selling music. Apple is in the music business in the same vein that a record shop is in the music business. Uber is in the personal transportation business, at a broader high level. It's in the business of operating a market for rides. Just like how a record store doesn't actually compose and record the music it sells, Uber isn't in the business of actually driving people around. That task is fulfilled by independent workers, who use the platform Uber and Lyft operate to find customers. Can you point out in said SEC filings where Uber says, "our company's primary business is operating motor vehicles to transport customers"? As in, actually driving their own cars? Because from what I've read they're very careful about describing their business as operating a marketplace for drivers to conduct their own businesses.