4 ms·

How is it corrupt? And isn't that a net gain for the city, since Twitter was going to up and move a few miles south?

jeffreymcmanus 16y ago
They were threatening to move to Brisbane, as a way to avoid a 1% city tax on payrolls (which, importantly, includes proceeds from stock options). But it's questionable as to whether a company that moves from San Francisco to Brisbane (which, let's face it, is a dump) would be better off moving. How excited would you be to commute down there if you had a similar job opportunity somewhere else? Would it be worth the 1% in payroll they'll end up saving? I have a hard time envisioning it. It's great that the mid-Market Street area will (presumably) improve after this happens, whenever it happens. I just wish that in a world in which San Francisco is cutting back on the number of days in the school year that they could find a way to balance the books other than issuing big corporate welfare packages.
- usaar333 16y ago
  1) If Brisbane is a dump, the Civic Center area where Twitter wants to move is a toxic waste storage area. 2) The tax is a huge amount of money per employee. 1% (current value - strike). That can be in the thousands for earlier employees. 3) Commute all depends where you are coming from. If you live in SF or the northern East Bay, it might get a bit worse. If you live in San Mateo, Santa Clara County, hell even southern San Francisco, it's a huge improvement. Furthermore, as you get older you are more likely to move south, so the workers most affected by the tax might also actually find their commute better. 3a) I can hardly fathom someone quitting a job that moved a mere 8 miles away. The company should excite you far more than chilling out every day in the Tenderloin. Finally, a useful link for all: http://co.sfgov.org/webreports/details.aspx?id=1255 http://co.sfgov.org/webreports/details.aspx?id=1255
  - jeffreymcmanus 16y ago
    > the Civic Center area where Twitter wants to move is a toxic waste storage area Maybe, but I thought this corporate welfare is supposed to instantly turn it into a paradise for young urban professionals, right? Or did I miss something? Nobody ever woke up in the morning and said "you know where I'd really like to get a job today? Brisbane!" Anyway, mid-Market sucks far less than Brisbane on a number of axes. You can walk or bike to work if you worked in mid-Market and lived in SOMA (as many Twitter employees do); have fun doing that in Brisbane. On Market Street, you can walk to lunch; in Brisbane lunch would be a 10 minute car ride away. Mid-Market also has excellent public transit to get to and from work and other places in the city. In other words, SF is a real city, with real city amenities. Real city amenities cost money. Taxes are how those things get paid for. If you don't see that, then you (and the rest of the tea party) have some growing up to do. A 1% tax that amounts to "thousands of dollars" means your annual income is hundreds of thousands of dollars. Congratulations on that, but let's get real for a minute -- someone with an income in that range is going to have a bigger problem with an extra 15-30 minute commute each day than the few dollars they never see in their paycheck. And anyway, if the absolute dollar amount were really an issue, market forces would easily compensate for this (that is to say, people who work in San Francisco would be paid more as they flee the city in droves).
    - usaar333 16y ago
      Obviously, this comes down to personal preferences, but: >> Nobody ever woke up in the morning and said "you know where I'd really like to get a job today? Brisbane!" Note: Twitter's other location was actually more likely to be the Centennial Towers, located in South City (on the border of Brisbane) I suspect the majority of people living south of San Francisco would prefer a job there. It'd be a significant reduction in commute time - and is pretty close to Caltrain. Where do the employees all live? I have no clue. There's certainly restaurants @ Sierra Point, though admittedly less so than Market. There's also far less crime, homelessness, etc. Besides Twitter to getting to the stage where they might just go the Google/Facebook route and have cafeterias.
OstiaAntica 16y ago
The problem is that other companies, those without Twitter's investors and PR team, still have the pay the tax. If it is bad policy, which it is, it should be repealed for all city businesses.

They were threatening to move to Brisbane, as a way to avoid a 1% city tax on payrolls (which, importantly, includes proceeds from stock options). But it's questionable as to whether a company that moves from San Francisco to Brisbane (which, let's face it, is a dump) would be better off moving. How excited would you be to commute down there if you had a similar job opportunity somewhere else? Would it be worth the 1% in payroll they'll end up saving? I have a hard time envisioning it. It's great that the mid-Market Street area will (presumably) improve after this happens, whenever it happens. I just wish that in a world in which San Francisco is cutting back on the number of days in the school year that they could find a way to balance the books other than issuing big corporate welfare packages.

usaar333 16y ago
1) If Brisbane is a dump, the Civic Center area where Twitter wants to move is a toxic waste storage area. 2) The tax is a huge amount of money per employee. 1% (current value - strike). That can be in the thousands for earlier employees. 3) Commute all depends where you are coming from. If you live in SF or the northern East Bay, it might get a bit worse. If you live in San Mateo, Santa Clara County, hell even southern San Francisco, it's a huge improvement. Furthermore, as you get older you are more likely to move south, so the workers most affected by the tax might also actually find their commute better. 3a) I can hardly fathom someone quitting a job that moved a mere 8 miles away. The company should excite you far more than chilling out every day in the Tenderloin. Finally, a useful link for all: http://co.sfgov.org/webreports/details.aspx?id=1255 http://co.sfgov.org/webreports/details.aspx?id=1255
- jeffreymcmanus 16y ago
  > the Civic Center area where Twitter wants to move is a toxic waste storage area Maybe, but I thought this corporate welfare is supposed to instantly turn it into a paradise for young urban professionals, right? Or did I miss something? Nobody ever woke up in the morning and said "you know where I'd really like to get a job today? Brisbane!" Anyway, mid-Market sucks far less than Brisbane on a number of axes. You can walk or bike to work if you worked in mid-Market and lived in SOMA (as many Twitter employees do); have fun doing that in Brisbane. On Market Street, you can walk to lunch; in Brisbane lunch would be a 10 minute car ride away. Mid-Market also has excellent public transit to get to and from work and other places in the city. In other words, SF is a real city, with real city amenities. Real city amenities cost money. Taxes are how those things get paid for. If you don't see that, then you (and the rest of the tea party) have some growing up to do. A 1% tax that amounts to "thousands of dollars" means your annual income is hundreds of thousands of dollars. Congratulations on that, but let's get real for a minute -- someone with an income in that range is going to have a bigger problem with an extra 15-30 minute commute each day than the few dollars they never see in their paycheck. And anyway, if the absolute dollar amount were really an issue, market forces would easily compensate for this (that is to say, people who work in San Francisco would be paid more as they flee the city in droves).
  - usaar333 16y ago
    Obviously, this comes down to personal preferences, but: >> Nobody ever woke up in the morning and said "you know where I'd really like to get a job today? Brisbane!" Note: Twitter's other location was actually more likely to be the Centennial Towers, located in South City (on the border of Brisbane) I suspect the majority of people living south of San Francisco would prefer a job there. It'd be a significant reduction in commute time - and is pretty close to Caltrain. Where do the employees all live? I have no clue. There's certainly restaurants @ Sierra Point, though admittedly less so than Market. There's also far less crime, homelessness, etc. Besides Twitter to getting to the stage where they might just go the Google/Facebook route and have cafeterias.

OstiaAntica 16y ago

The problem is that other companies, those without Twitter's investors and PR team, still have the pay the tax. If it is bad policy, which it is, it should be repealed for all city businesses.