9 ms·

Mozilla MDN docs are my go-to resource for js related stuff, does this mean they won't be maintained and updated anymore? To be honest, I would be more than wi

by fmax30 6y ago

Mozilla MDN docs are my go-to resource for js related stuff, does this mean they won't be maintained and updated anymore? To be honest, I would be more than willing to pay a reasonable monthly subscription fee to access their docs.

Semaphor 6y ago
It’s not only them anymore: "Mozilla brings Microsoft, Google, the W3C, Samsung together to create cross-browser documentation on MDN" -- https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/10/18/mozilla-brings-microsoft-google-w3c-samsung-together-create-cross-browser-documentation-mdn/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/10/18/mozilla-brings-micr...
- claviska 6y ago
  That's at least a tiny bit of good news then. Thanks for clarifying that!
  - pintxo 6y ago
    The blog is from 2017!
- jrott 6y ago
  That is good news. Do any of the other companies have people working on MDN?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- stingraycharles 6y ago
  That’s a blog post from 2017. I wouldn’t be so sure it will continue under the Mozilla umbrella without them dedicating any people to it.
uallo 6y ago
MDN is a Wiki. Everybody can contribute.
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  Doesn't mean everybody will. Wikipedia is a weird special-case. I've contributed once to MDN, ever, and I use it all the time.
  - emidln 6y ago
    Also if the team that was supporting it is gone, will the deployment just bit rot and die?
  - dhimes 6y ago
    I'm not even sure I want everyone contributing, at least not without some pruning.
    - wizzwizz4 6y ago
      Sparse documentation is better than wrong documentation.
  - detaro 6y ago
    But e.g. Google teams working on web specs do at least. But I don't have data how the contributions are split, and maintenance is of course a concern.
  - Hamuko 6y ago
    >Wikipedia is a weird special-case. Is it? https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7x47bb/wikipedia-editors-elite-diversity-foundation https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7x47bb/wikipedia-editors-...
    - Earwig 6y ago
      This is the nature of any community platform [0]. Most people will just fix small issues they see or contribute a little in an area that appeals to them, and aren't interested in becoming heavily active. I don't see Wikipedia as special in this case, it's just so large that the 1% has enough critical mass to maintain it (well, mostly). 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture)
coreypreston 6y ago
Same here, W3 pales in comparison, which is not to denigrate their work. It's been helpful many times. MDN just has more accessible writing and notes on best practice.
- chrisfinazzo 6y ago
  That's not an accident, IMO. W3 docs started out, and I would argue, continues to be most relevant to people whose work it is to implement a browser. Certainly, you can use them to learn how to use the various HTML, CSS, and JS standards, but this is where MDN - and even the Chromium and Webkit resources - are leaps ahead with practical examples you can use in your own code.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    I think people are talking about w3schools, where you're talking about the specs that the W3 (in some cases) maintain.
    - chrisfinazzo 6y ago
      Really, I wasn't sure when I wrote that. Refsnes Data, who owns/runs the site, isn't affiliated with the W3C in any official capacity that I know of. I was thinking more of a story I heard on an old episode of Hypercritical where John described first learning HTML and the rest through a combination of (mostly) O'Reilly books and reading the specs themselves. While I suppose this passed muster in the early/mid 90's, I would repeat my earlier claim that the specs nowadays are more for implementers, and not something really well suited to teach you how to use the various languages and tools. Potentially losing what is perhaps the most approachable reference for this purpose would be terrible for everyone.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        > I would repeat my earlier claim that the specs nowadays are more for implementers Right... but that's not what anyone here means when they talk about the w3 compared to MDN. They mean w3schools.
sushshshsh 6y ago
Hope someone scrapes them and hosts them as a torrent now, I'm not sure where else to go for js documentation besides node.
claudiulodro 6y ago
I agree, these are the best JS docs around. I hope they continue maintaining them. The main alternative is W3 Schools, which is substantially worse (I blame their for-profit ad-supported business model, which doesn't necessarily incentivize thoroughness and depth)
- dom96 6y ago
  I am constantly surprised to see Google ranking W3 Schools so highly. Does anyone know how they have managed to be ranked so high up?
  - cvhashim 6y ago
    It’s decent for beginners with easy to follow tutorials and examples, but once you start getting in the weeds of JS, it’s not as useful I feel like.
  - sireat 6y ago
    Domain Age - They've been around forever with tons of materials. Quality - good enough for most things. The newer stuff is not that bad and usually more practical(read quicker to grok for someone in a hurry) that the more thorough MDN docs. Dirty trick - association with w3 standards body (none in reality)
  - irrational 6y ago
    They used to be really bad. Their quality has significantly increased over the past years. I will use w3schools for quick info, but MDN when I really want in-depth information.
- CryoLogic 6y ago
  https://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/ https://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/ is much more comprehensive, and sadly very few ever read it. Lots of functionality in the spec that isn't even possible to find on MDN or W3 Schools.
  - domenicd 6y ago
greenie_beans 6y ago
yeah, i google my questions about js/hmtl/css and always look for MDN docs. would be a huge loss to lose that
srik 6y ago
A while ago they established an advisory board with members from institutions with deep pockets so if Mozilla were to abandon MDN entirely, chances are we might see a more democratized version emerge, which is a good thing. I'd wait till the board meets again this month. But hey if that didn't happen, MDN content so far is fairly open - CC-BY-SA, public domain and MIT, so some kinda fork is bound to popup.

by fmax30 6y ago

Semaphor 6y ago

It’s not only them anymore: "Mozilla brings Microsoft, Google, the W3C, Samsung together to create cross-browser documentation on MDN" -- https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/10/18/mozilla-brings-microsoft-google-w3c-samsung-together-create-cross-browser-documentation-mdn/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/10/18/mozilla-brings-micr...

claviska 6y ago
That's at least a tiny bit of good news then. Thanks for clarifying that!
- pintxo 6y ago
  The blog is from 2017!
jrott 6y ago
That is good news. Do any of the other companies have people working on MDN?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
stingraycharles 6y ago
That’s a blog post from 2017. I wouldn’t be so sure it will continue under the Mozilla umbrella without them dedicating any people to it.

uallo 6y ago

MDN is a Wiki. Everybody can contribute.

wizzwizz4 6y ago
Doesn't mean everybody will. Wikipedia is a weird special-case. I've contributed once to MDN, ever, and I use it all the time.
- emidln 6y ago
  Also if the team that was supporting it is gone, will the deployment just bit rot and die?
- dhimes 6y ago
  I'm not even sure I want everyone contributing, at least not without some pruning.
  - wizzwizz4 6y ago
    Sparse documentation is better than wrong documentation.
- detaro 6y ago
  But e.g. Google teams working on web specs do at least. But I don't have data how the contributions are split, and maintenance is of course a concern.
- Hamuko 6y ago
  >Wikipedia is a weird special-case. Is it? https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7x47bb/wikipedia-editors-elite-diversity-foundation https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7x47bb/wikipedia-editors-...
  - Earwig 6y ago
    This is the nature of any community platform [0]. Most people will just fix small issues they see or contribute a little in an area that appeals to them, and aren't interested in becoming heavily active. I don't see Wikipedia as special in this case, it's just so large that the 1% has enough critical mass to maintain it (well, mostly). 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture)

coreypreston 6y ago

Same here, W3 pales in comparison, which is not to denigrate their work. It's been helpful many times. MDN just has more accessible writing and notes on best practice.

chrisfinazzo 6y ago
That's not an accident, IMO. W3 docs started out, and I would argue, continues to be most relevant to people whose work it is to implement a browser. Certainly, you can use them to learn how to use the various HTML, CSS, and JS standards, but this is where MDN - and even the Chromium and Webkit resources - are leaps ahead with practical examples you can use in your own code.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  I think people are talking about w3schools, where you're talking about the specs that the W3 (in some cases) maintain.
  - chrisfinazzo 6y ago
    Really, I wasn't sure when I wrote that. Refsnes Data, who owns/runs the site, isn't affiliated with the W3C in any official capacity that I know of. I was thinking more of a story I heard on an old episode of Hypercritical where John described first learning HTML and the rest through a combination of (mostly) O'Reilly books and reading the specs themselves. While I suppose this passed muster in the early/mid 90's, I would repeat my earlier claim that the specs nowadays are more for implementers, and not something really well suited to teach you how to use the various languages and tools. Potentially losing what is perhaps the most approachable reference for this purpose would be terrible for everyone.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      > I would repeat my earlier claim that the specs nowadays are more for implementers Right... but that's not what anyone here means when they talk about the w3 compared to MDN. They mean w3schools.

sushshshsh 6y ago

Hope someone scrapes them and hosts them as a torrent now, I'm not sure where else to go for js documentation besides node.

claudiulodro 6y ago

I agree, these are the best JS docs around. I hope they continue maintaining them. The main alternative is W3 Schools, which is substantially worse (I blame their for-profit ad-supported business model, which doesn't necessarily incentivize thoroughness and depth)

dom96 6y ago
I am constantly surprised to see Google ranking W3 Schools so highly. Does anyone know how they have managed to be ranked so high up?
- cvhashim 6y ago
  It’s decent for beginners with easy to follow tutorials and examples, but once you start getting in the weeds of JS, it’s not as useful I feel like.
- sireat 6y ago
  Domain Age - They've been around forever with tons of materials. Quality - good enough for most things. The newer stuff is not that bad and usually more practical(read quicker to grok for someone in a hurry) that the more thorough MDN docs. Dirty trick - association with w3 standards body (none in reality)
- irrational 6y ago
  They used to be really bad. Their quality has significantly increased over the past years. I will use w3schools for quick info, but MDN when I really want in-depth information.
CryoLogic 6y ago
https://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/ https://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/ is much more comprehensive, and sadly very few ever read it. Lots of functionality in the spec that isn't even possible to find on MDN or W3 Schools.
- domenicd 6y ago

greenie_beans 6y ago

yeah, i google my questions about js/hmtl/css and always look for MDN docs. would be a huge loss to lose that

srik 6y ago

A while ago they established an advisory board with members from institutions with deep pockets so if Mozilla were to abandon MDN entirely, chances are we might see a more democratized version emerge, which is a good thing. I'd wait till the board meets again this month. But hey if that didn't happen, MDN content so far is fairly open - CC-BY-SA, public domain and MIT, so some kinda fork is bound to popup.