4 ms·

My understanding of libertarianism is as basically generalizing on the idea of freedom from slavery as the most fundamental right. "Liberty" is then the narrowl

My understanding of libertarianism is as basically generalizing on the idea of freedom from slavery as the most fundamental right. "Liberty" is then the narrowly-defined freedom from having force used against you. And you are only justified in using force against others to stop them from using force against you. As to whether loud noise or sulfur dioxide count as sufficient force against you seems arguable.

nickthemagicman 6y ago
That's not very accurate. Libertarians believe in collective reason over centralized authority. Here's a good run down. https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/key-concepts-libertarianism https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/key-concepts-li...
- arp242 6y ago
  This is all very fine, but what it misses are the power imbalances we have. This is not inherently a bad thing, but if I don't have the freedom to disagree with my landlord out of fear of being evicted then I'm not living a very "free" life. "Collective reason" sounds great, but in practice it doesn't really work. I feel it's very naïve.
  - amscanne 6y ago
    You are absolutely free to disagree with your landlord by moving out and finding another place to live. Ideally there are no government constraints on either party (e.g. housing assignments, rental limitations and controls, etc.). I don’t really understand the rest of the point being made here. You wouldn’t have such a choice with a central authority giving you a housing assignment.
clairity 6y ago
that's libertarianism's fatal flaw: you can't escape force and power (that is to say, politics) in any kind of society, let alone in a political system. most of libertarianism is trying to cope with this core flaw, not living that glorious individualist life. liberty as one of many (sometimes contradictory) values (and the academic lines of inquiry therein) is fine. a whole ideology based on the supremacy of that one value is simply unworkable. we're social creatures, not just a collection of coincident individuals.

nickthemagicman 6y ago

That's not very accurate. Libertarians believe in collective reason over centralized authority. Here's a good run down. https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/key-concepts-libertarianism https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/key-concepts-li...

arp242 6y ago
This is all very fine, but what it misses are the power imbalances we have. This is not inherently a bad thing, but if I don't have the freedom to disagree with my landlord out of fear of being evicted then I'm not living a very "free" life. "Collective reason" sounds great, but in practice it doesn't really work. I feel it's very naïve.
- amscanne 6y ago
  You are absolutely free to disagree with your landlord by moving out and finding another place to live. Ideally there are no government constraints on either party (e.g. housing assignments, rental limitations and controls, etc.). I don’t really understand the rest of the point being made here. You wouldn’t have such a choice with a central authority giving you a housing assignment.

clairity 6y ago

that's libertarianism's fatal flaw: you can't escape force and power (that is to say, politics) in any kind of society, let alone in a political system. most of libertarianism is trying to cope with this core flaw, not living that glorious individualist life. liberty as one of many (sometimes contradictory) values (and the academic lines of inquiry therein) is fine. a whole ideology based on the supremacy of that one value is simply unworkable. we're social creatures, not just a collection of coincident individuals.