3 ms·

Hilariously they will pay a lot of money for trash talent as anyone worth keeping will already be well secured and compensated. No one in their right mind would

Hilariously they will pay a lot of money for trash talent as anyone worth keeping will already be well secured and compensated. No one in their right mind would move to China if they don't have to.

yourapostasy 6y ago
With enough party protection and money, you can live an insulated, coddled life in China, and your spouse and children will be well taken care of. The risk is the long-term (3-7+ year range) uncertainty in when you lose political protection, and whether you can expatriate your savings without punitive withholdings if/when you decide to permanently leave. Some echoes to US decamillionaires' (and up) decision matrix to renounce citizenship, but on a much more granular level where the CCP scrutiny is based upon an opaque criteria set, and can hit much smaller incomes if the political profile is high enough with a powerful enough party official. For top talent with long financial time horizons, you're right, it will be challenging to lure the aware ones to China.
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  Definitely short term horizons are the focus. You can’t even own property long term.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Chinese property leases are for 99 years, I don't think it's that much of an issue.
    - mensetmanusman 6y ago
      Psychologically it is, because it says you can’t build generational wealth for the children the government authorized you to produce.
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        You can build generational wealth by passing down stocks, investments or money; anything but land. At the contrary, the fact that land cannot be bought assures, for the average engineer, that their children will likely not get priced out of their city.
        mensetmanusman 6y ago
        Everything except land is fleeting, that is why the wealthy Chinese all buy land outside of China, they know that the things you listed could disappear in a night.
        sudosysgen 6y ago
        Even land is fleeting. Ever hear of property taxes? Owning land in many states is essentially a 50 year lease. The only thing that isn't fleeting are the skills and experiences you pass down to your kids.
        mensetmanusman 6y ago
        Land has been passed down for many generations quite successfully, and property taxes are great, because there should be some societal cost associated with the ownership, i.e. being able to call on the fire department etc. Maybe that is the mindset of the communists, and it would make sense that they want to manage how many babies exit women in case skills can’t be passed down as efficiently.
        sudosysgen 6y ago
        You're misunderstanding. Property taxes mean that in practice even in the USA you don't own the land, you have what is essentially a renewable lease - you have to pay the equivalent of the land value every 50-70 years. If you're in China, you are in exactly the same situation - you have to pay the value of the lease every 70 years (or less). At the end of the 70 year lease, you are automatically eligible for renewal, as long as the land is being used and is not being speculated upon. The Chinese land system is literally functionally identical to a 1.3% property tax. The goal of the system is to reduce land speculation, which worked because in China 90% of households outright own their houses. Essentially, the land is free, you only pay the property tax. China's 70 year urban land leases are essentially the Chinese version of property taxes. As long as you pay for the lease renewal, you are allowed to automatically renew it. In exchange, you don't pay western-style property taxes. The building itself is excluded from the 70 year lease, you own it in full and in perpetuity, so it isn't subject to the tax. In fact, many 70 or 20 year leases have been renewed. In conclusion, it isn't a question of control, it's simply a way to pay into the budget of the local government - if they wanted you expropriated they have eminent domain. Additionally, it limits speculation on the price of land, because when the lease expires there is very strong incentive for the owner of the lease or someone in their family to be using it as a housing. This is part of why in China 90% of people own the house in which they leave. All in all, as a homeowner, a 70 year infinitely renewable lease from the CCP is not different from having to pay for the value of your land every 70 years because of property taxes. In practice, people have passed down land for multiple generations in China, and upon lease expiry have had it automatically renewed so that they may pass it on to their children too. Therefore, your perception is unfounded.

Hilariously they will pay a lot of money for trash talent as anyone worth keeping will already be well secured and compensated. No one in their right mind would move to China if they don't have to.

yourapostasy 6y ago

With enough party protection and money, you can live an insulated, coddled life in China, and your spouse and children will be well taken care of. The risk is the long-term (3-7+ year range) uncertainty in when you lose political protection, and whether you can expatriate your savings without punitive withholdings if/when you decide to permanently leave. Some echoes to US decamillionaires' (and up) decision matrix to renounce citizenship, but on a much more granular level where the CCP scrutiny is based upon an opaque criteria set, and can hit much smaller incomes if the political profile is high enough with a powerful enough party official. For top talent with long financial time horizons, you're right, it will be challenging to lure the aware ones to China.

mensetmanusman 6y ago
Definitely short term horizons are the focus. You can’t even own property long term.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Chinese property leases are for 99 years, I don't think it's that much of an issue.
  - mensetmanusman 6y ago
    Psychologically it is, because it says you can’t build generational wealth for the children the government authorized you to produce.
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      You can build generational wealth by passing down stocks, investments or money; anything but land. At the contrary, the fact that land cannot be bought assures, for the average engineer, that their children will likely not get priced out of their city.
      - mensetmanusman 6y ago
        Everything except land is fleeting, that is why the wealthy Chinese all buy land outside of China, they know that the things you listed could disappear in a night.
        sudosysgen 6y ago
        Even land is fleeting. Ever hear of property taxes? Owning land in many states is essentially a 50 year lease. The only thing that isn't fleeting are the skills and experiences you pass down to your kids.
        mensetmanusman 6y ago
        Land has been passed down for many generations quite successfully, and property taxes are great, because there should be some societal cost associated with the ownership, i.e. being able to call on the fire department etc. Maybe that is the mindset of the communists, and it would make sense that they want to manage how many babies exit women in case skills can’t be passed down as efficiently.
        sudosysgen 6y ago
        You're misunderstanding. Property taxes mean that in practice even in the USA you don't own the land, you have what is essentially a renewable lease - you have to pay the equivalent of the land value every 50-70 years. If you're in China, you are in exactly the same situation - you have to pay the value of the lease every 70 years (or less). At the end of the 70 year lease, you are automatically eligible for renewal, as long as the land is being used and is not being speculated upon. The Chinese land system is literally functionally identical to a 1.3% property tax. The goal of the system is to reduce land speculation, which worked because in China 90% of households outright own their houses. Essentially, the land is free, you only pay the property tax. China's 70 year urban land leases are essentially the Chinese version of property taxes. As long as you pay for the lease renewal, you are allowed to automatically renew it. In exchange, you don't pay western-style property taxes. The building itself is excluded from the 70 year lease, you own it in full and in perpetuity, so it isn't subject to the tax. In fact, many 70 or 20 year leases have been renewed. In conclusion, it isn't a question of control, it's simply a way to pay into the budget of the local government - if they wanted you expropriated they have eminent domain. Additionally, it limits speculation on the price of land, because when the lease expires there is very strong incentive for the owner of the lease or someone in their family to be using it as a housing. This is part of why in China 90% of people own the house in which they leave. All in all, as a homeowner, a 70 year infinitely renewable lease from the CCP is not different from having to pay for the value of your land every 70 years because of property taxes. In practice, people have passed down land for multiple generations in China, and upon lease expiry have had it automatically renewed so that they may pass it on to their children too. Therefore, your perception is unfounded.