4 ms·

There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments. What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite directi

by varjag 6y ago

There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments. What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 connectivity in the country. The only reason the limited networking is still up and running is not some residual generosity of the regime. It is because traditional PSTN and long range special comms services are all routed via IP trunking these days. Disrupting these will also disrupt operations level communication between KGB, police and presidential security units that are squashing the protests. (Жыве Беларусь!)

blue52 6y ago
Good idea, especially when times as serious as this. Folks, when there is major unrest/wars going on, it's a great time to really think outside the box. You will need the most determined mindset possible. Be prepared to violate all communication regulations (or perish where you stand, potentially).
pulse7 6y ago
"...will also disrupt operations level communication between KGB, police and presidential security units..." Unless they have dedicated, completely separate communication lines for the security, army and the president...
- selectodude 6y ago
  Moscow built an entirely second subway deep under the first for government use only so this isn’t at all out of the ordinary.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    Isn't the D6 system a myth made up for Metro 2033? Or at least never really confirmed?
    - selectodude 6y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro-2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro-2
    - andai 6y ago
      Tell me, if it is true they do not exist, how can it be that I have eaten one? Alleged photos of D6: https://web.archive.org/web/20150609013409/http://vk.com/album256359040_196285216 https://web.archive.org/web/20150609013409/http://vk.com/alb...
- londons_explore 6y ago
  Which I doubt. It'll all be done by the lowest bidder the easiest way... Which is insecure VoIP over the public internet.
- varjag 6y ago
  The military uses it's own relay network, and will of course be largely unaffected. The military was also least involved in the crackdown, with an attempt to involve paratroops in Brest two nights ago. The response was apathetic and they didn't leave their trucks. Police and KGB use packet switching network at levels beyond tactical, and it piggybacks on civilian infrastructure.
gnarea 6y ago
> There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments. > What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 connectivity in the country. Is that really plausible though? I'm sure it's technically doable, but I'm not sure it's realistic or even a good idea if you could pull it off. Who has the ability _and_ incentive to carry out such an attack? You could hire someone to do a DDoS attack, for example, but who would pay for that? Let's say you've pulled it off. Have you considered the collateral damage? Can we be certain that whoever has the capacity to do this will only ever use it "for good"? What's "for good" anyway? Have you even considered that not all the people who remained connected in the country may be government officials? I don't know about this specific Internet blackout, but quite often other organisations (e.g., international NGOs, consulates/embassies, hotels) remain connected (see this for example: https://qz.com/africa/1884387/ethiopia-internet-is-back-on-but-oromo-tensions-remain/ https://qz.com/africa/1884387/ethiopia-internet-is-back-on-b...).
- varjag 6y ago
  In fact I don't think you can do that with DDoS attack easily. What I had in mind is more like a physical attack on switching equipment at a handful of branch exchange or backbone stations. That would require getting the network layout documentation, but IT sector in Belarus is enormous and well connected. Yes there will be collateral of course, the most serious is to emergency response services who use the same network. I realise it sounds a bit like that Death Star vent attack, but it is still more realistic than a Bluetooth mesh network that doesn't fold with more than a handful users.
- baybal2 6y ago
  > Is that really plausible though? I'm sure it's technically doable, but I'm not sure it's realistic or even a good idea if you could pull it off. I'd say a blackout may well pull more people to the street, and open more opportunities for spontaneous openings. The same was in USSR in 1991. People are actually being attracted by the sound of gunfire, fire, and smoke, if all other decision making inputs are cut off. Sounds of intense gunfire in a city often result in people being inadvertently "herded" into big crowds, and formation of street-to-street fronts, which result in assailants being surrounded. Then, when people see enemies surrounded, and trembling in fear, human primal instincts kick in, and crazy things happen. Moscow 1991, Bishkek 2010, Kyiv 2014, Istanbul 2016 all demonstrated that effect. How powerful can it be? There were historical precedents when such spontaneous crowds went on offensive again fully armed military forces, and won, with Istanbul, and Bishkek events being the most vivid. In Bishkek, a column of smoke rising from a key government building, along with a comms blackout, was enough to instantaneously gather a crowd of 5000-6000 bystanders, and onlookers who in just 3-4 hours turned into am unstoppable human wave. It were these complete randoms who then marched against an elite SF battalion, 10+ snipers, fire from 12.7mm, took 5 RPG shots (!!!), and, in the end, still managed to steamroll that battalion to the last man. Even the relatively tame footage that managed to escape Youtube censorship if still horrifying. I cannot find the original Euronews footage on the net now, but here is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zUSe2peRE&t=30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zUSe2peRE&t=30s (quite intense, be prepared.) Take a look at the footage starting at 0:30, and give attention to what happens after 1:05.

by varjag 6y ago

blue52 6y ago

Good idea, especially when times as serious as this. Folks, when there is major unrest/wars going on, it's a great time to really think outside the box. You will need the most determined mindset possible. Be prepared to violate all communication regulations (or perish where you stand, potentially).

pulse7 6y ago

"...will also disrupt operations level communication between KGB, police and presidential security units..." Unless they have dedicated, completely separate communication lines for the security, army and the president...

selectodude 6y ago
Moscow built an entirely second subway deep under the first for government use only so this isn’t at all out of the ordinary.
- gambiting 6y ago
  Isn't the D6 system a myth made up for Metro 2033? Or at least never really confirmed?
  - selectodude 6y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro-2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro-2
  - andai 6y ago
    Tell me, if it is true they do not exist, how can it be that I have eaten one? Alleged photos of D6: https://web.archive.org/web/20150609013409/http://vk.com/album256359040_196285216 https://web.archive.org/web/20150609013409/http://vk.com/alb...
londons_explore 6y ago
Which I doubt. It'll all be done by the lowest bidder the easiest way... Which is insecure VoIP over the public internet.
varjag 6y ago
The military uses it's own relay network, and will of course be largely unaffected. The military was also least involved in the crackdown, with an attempt to involve paratroops in Brest two nights ago. The response was apathetic and they didn't leave their trucks. Police and KGB use packet switching network at levels beyond tactical, and it piggybacks on civilian infrastructure.

gnarea 6y ago

> There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments. > What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 connectivity in the country. Is that really plausible though? I'm sure it's technically doable, but I'm not sure it's realistic or even a good idea if you could pull it off. Who has the ability _and_ incentive to carry out such an attack? You could hire someone to do a DDoS attack, for example, but who would pay for that? Let's say you've pulled it off. Have you considered the collateral damage? Can we be certain that whoever has the capacity to do this will only ever use it "for good"? What's "for good" anyway? Have you even considered that not all the people who remained connected in the country may be government officials? I don't know about this specific Internet blackout, but quite often other organisations (e.g., international NGOs, consulates/embassies, hotels) remain connected (see this for example: https://qz.com/africa/1884387/ethiopia-internet-is-back-on-but-oromo-tensions-remain/ https://qz.com/africa/1884387/ethiopia-internet-is-back-on-b...).

varjag 6y ago
In fact I don't think you can do that with DDoS attack easily. What I had in mind is more like a physical attack on switching equipment at a handful of branch exchange or backbone stations. That would require getting the network layout documentation, but IT sector in Belarus is enormous and well connected. Yes there will be collateral of course, the most serious is to emergency response services who use the same network. I realise it sounds a bit like that Death Star vent attack, but it is still more realistic than a Bluetooth mesh network that doesn't fold with more than a handful users.
baybal2 6y ago
> Is that really plausible though? I'm sure it's technically doable, but I'm not sure it's realistic or even a good idea if you could pull it off. I'd say a blackout may well pull more people to the street, and open more opportunities for spontaneous openings. The same was in USSR in 1991. People are actually being attracted by the sound of gunfire, fire, and smoke, if all other decision making inputs are cut off. Sounds of intense gunfire in a city often result in people being inadvertently "herded" into big crowds, and formation of street-to-street fronts, which result in assailants being surrounded. Then, when people see enemies surrounded, and trembling in fear, human primal instincts kick in, and crazy things happen. Moscow 1991, Bishkek 2010, Kyiv 2014, Istanbul 2016 all demonstrated that effect. How powerful can it be? There were historical precedents when such spontaneous crowds went on offensive again fully armed military forces, and won, with Istanbul, and Bishkek events being the most vivid. In Bishkek, a column of smoke rising from a key government building, along with a comms blackout, was enough to instantaneously gather a crowd of 5000-6000 bystanders, and onlookers who in just 3-4 hours turned into am unstoppable human wave. It were these complete randoms who then marched against an elite SF battalion, 10+ snipers, fire from 12.7mm, took 5 RPG shots (!!!), and, in the end, still managed to steamroll that battalion to the last man. Even the relatively tame footage that managed to escape Youtube censorship if still horrifying. I cannot find the original Euronews footage on the net now, but here is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zUSe2peRE&t=30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zUSe2peRE&t=30s (quite intense, be prepared.) Take a look at the footage starting at 0:30, and give attention to what happens after 1:05.