12 ms·

We are not talking about stealing here. They are hiring senior people with the know-how, both engineers and executives, by offering them huge compensation pack

We are not talking about stealing here. They are hiring senior people with the know-how, both engineers and executives, by offering them huge compensation packages. They are hiring from both Taiwan and South Korea btw. Huawei does the same in mobile. Their know-how comes from hiring good people. They have R&D centers outside China where they employ people they hired from Qualcomm, Nokia, Ericsson and others to design their new 5G SoC and mobile technologies.

mschuster91 6y ago
> They have R&D centers outside China where they employ people they hired from Qualcomm, Nokia, Ericsson and others to design their new 5G SoC and mobile technologies. Then it is time to kick Huawei out. Dissolve or nationalize their local entities, ban banks from dealing with their money. China does not allow foreign companies to operate in China, so why should Western countries do the same? It's either a level field for all - or no field at all. The Western world has appeased China for too long in the hope China would democratize itself. This has evidently failed, it's time to pull the plug.
- nicoburns 6y ago
  Nobody plays by the "level playing field" rules. The US likes to pretend it does, but as soon as there's an industry where it's not competitive (like agriculture for example), that goes out of the window. And IMO for good reason. Unfettered markets work in some cases. But in many cases they have lead to "winner takes all scenarios" where a single player (or 2/3 players) become dominant and the market is no longer competitive. We need a system that works against this over the long term, and some level of protectionism seems like a decent way of doing that.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    Name one. You are just repeating protectionist propaganda to justify overcharging customers to benefit protected corporations.
    - nicoburns 6y ago
      Well I was thinking of agriculture subsidies, which are substantial in both the US and the EU. The US also puts significant subsidies into the Oil&Gas and Aerospace industries.
      - xster 6y ago
        Right. When the 2010 Haiti earthquake hit, it wasn't a natural disaster that killed. It was an infrastructure disaster that killed. For a country that went from self-sufficiency in food to having its domestic agriculture wiped out from dumping from subsidized US agricultural products. Then there are the more overt attacks like on Alstom, Toshiba etc.
      - valuearb 6y ago
        Agricultural subsidies are the clearest form of theft from consumers there is. There is zero chance of monopolies in an unrestrained agricultural, oil, or gas markets. Your better example is Aerospace, but there is no proven reason we need those colossal companies, and a big part of the merger drive that created them us to monopolize access to government contracts. ULA is a perfect example of that.
        nicoburns 6y ago
        I think what you miss here is that in addition to efficiency, resilience is important in agricultural (and arguably other industries). Depending on foreign supply is all well and good until there's a shortage. Then you're screwed. Arguably China have just found this with semiconductors. It was all well and good depending on TSMC, until the US blocked their supply.
      - beaunative 6y ago
        Agriculture isn't the best example. Agriculture provides for people's livehood. It's the actual industry that national security depends upon. Which is why so many countries subsidize agriculture, it's not a economical decision at all in any regard.
- yorwba 6y ago
  Microsoft has R&D centers in China where they employ graduates of China's top universities to work on cutting-edge research. https://www.msra.cn/ https://www.msra.cn/ Kicking Huawei out because they fund research in Western countries would be just as stupid as China kicking out Microsoft because they fund research in China.
  - actuator 6y ago
    Pardon my ignorance, but has MSR China produced something good? I have seen a lot of interesting stuff come out of MSR but mostly it has been from the US. Also, are top talent joining MSR China? From what I know, many Chinese companies beat MS in compensation easily and these new companies will have the lure of quick growth as well.
    - yorwba 6y ago
      ResNet https://arxiv.org/abs/1512.03385 https://arxiv.org/abs/1512.03385 came out of Microsoft Research Asia. I think that's a pretty good thing they produced. Evidently they managed to hire the top talent behind that work at some point. Looks like Kaiming He works at Facebook now, though. http://kaiminghe.com/ http://kaiminghe.com/
      - actuator 6y ago
        Ah, interesting to know that. Thanks.
    - beaunative 6y ago
      Research institutions generally have lower salary then industry. That doesn't mean it's not a good place to go.
- FooBarWidget 6y ago
  Apple operates in China. ARM operates in China. Tesla operates in China. Even Facebook operates in China. Their social network is banned (for refusing to comply to censorship laws), but the company is still allowed to do business. Facebook has quite a few advertisement deals in China. Heck, walk down the street in China for 10 minutes and you'll see more McDonalds and StarBucks than you've ever seen in your life. Since 2014 legal reforms, many foreign companies are no longer required to form joint ventures in China, and so own 100% of the shares (and technology). Saying that "China doesn't allow foreign companies" is... unnuanced, to say the least.
  - dillonmckay 6y ago
    Not to mention the NBA, too.
  - greatjack613 6y ago
    ccp propaganda. Facts are Tesla was the first company allowed fully private ownership of ip in china. No other company has had that before.
    - dirtyid 6y ago
      Lucent and GM had WFOE arrangements (certain plants) in the mid 90s. Artcile from 1997. https://hbr.org/1997/03/entering-china-an-unconventional-approach https://hbr.org/1997/03/entering-china-an-unconventional-app...
    - FooBarWidget 6y ago
      I did say that the reforms a pretty recent, didn’t I?
  - starky 6y ago
    >Heck, walk down the street in China for 10 minutes and you'll see more McDonalds and StarBucks than you've ever seen in your life. Also KFC, I've been to China and Asia many times and I'm still surprised at just how many KFCs there are.

mschuster91 6y ago

> They have R&D centers outside China where they employ people they hired from Qualcomm, Nokia, Ericsson and others to design their new 5G SoC and mobile technologies. Then it is time to kick Huawei out. Dissolve or nationalize their local entities, ban banks from dealing with their money. China does not allow foreign companies to operate in China, so why should Western countries do the same? It's either a level field for all - or no field at all. The Western world has appeased China for too long in the hope China would democratize itself. This has evidently failed, it's time to pull the plug.

nicoburns 6y ago
Nobody plays by the "level playing field" rules. The US likes to pretend it does, but as soon as there's an industry where it's not competitive (like agriculture for example), that goes out of the window. And IMO for good reason. Unfettered markets work in some cases. But in many cases they have lead to "winner takes all scenarios" where a single player (or 2/3 players) become dominant and the market is no longer competitive. We need a system that works against this over the long term, and some level of protectionism seems like a decent way of doing that.
- valuearb 6y ago
  Name one. You are just repeating protectionist propaganda to justify overcharging customers to benefit protected corporations.
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    Well I was thinking of agriculture subsidies, which are substantial in both the US and the EU. The US also puts significant subsidies into the Oil&Gas and Aerospace industries.
    - xster 6y ago
      Right. When the 2010 Haiti earthquake hit, it wasn't a natural disaster that killed. It was an infrastructure disaster that killed. For a country that went from self-sufficiency in food to having its domestic agriculture wiped out from dumping from subsidized US agricultural products. Then there are the more overt attacks like on Alstom, Toshiba etc.
    - valuearb 6y ago
      Agricultural subsidies are the clearest form of theft from consumers there is. There is zero chance of monopolies in an unrestrained agricultural, oil, or gas markets. Your better example is Aerospace, but there is no proven reason we need those colossal companies, and a big part of the merger drive that created them us to monopolize access to government contracts. ULA is a perfect example of that.
      - nicoburns 6y ago
        I think what you miss here is that in addition to efficiency, resilience is important in agricultural (and arguably other industries). Depending on foreign supply is all well and good until there's a shortage. Then you're screwed. Arguably China have just found this with semiconductors. It was all well and good depending on TSMC, until the US blocked their supply.
    - beaunative 6y ago
      Agriculture isn't the best example. Agriculture provides for people's livehood. It's the actual industry that national security depends upon. Which is why so many countries subsidize agriculture, it's not a economical decision at all in any regard.
yorwba 6y ago
Microsoft has R&D centers in China where they employ graduates of China's top universities to work on cutting-edge research. https://www.msra.cn/ https://www.msra.cn/ Kicking Huawei out because they fund research in Western countries would be just as stupid as China kicking out Microsoft because they fund research in China.
- actuator 6y ago
  Pardon my ignorance, but has MSR China produced something good? I have seen a lot of interesting stuff come out of MSR but mostly it has been from the US. Also, are top talent joining MSR China? From what I know, many Chinese companies beat MS in compensation easily and these new companies will have the lure of quick growth as well.
  - yorwba 6y ago
    ResNet https://arxiv.org/abs/1512.03385 https://arxiv.org/abs/1512.03385 came out of Microsoft Research Asia. I think that's a pretty good thing they produced. Evidently they managed to hire the top talent behind that work at some point. Looks like Kaiming He works at Facebook now, though. http://kaiminghe.com/ http://kaiminghe.com/
    - actuator 6y ago
      Ah, interesting to know that. Thanks.
  - beaunative 6y ago
    Research institutions generally have lower salary then industry. That doesn't mean it's not a good place to go.
FooBarWidget 6y ago
Apple operates in China. ARM operates in China. Tesla operates in China. Even Facebook operates in China. Their social network is banned (for refusing to comply to censorship laws), but the company is still allowed to do business. Facebook has quite a few advertisement deals in China. Heck, walk down the street in China for 10 minutes and you'll see more McDonalds and StarBucks than you've ever seen in your life. Since 2014 legal reforms, many foreign companies are no longer required to form joint ventures in China, and so own 100% of the shares (and technology). Saying that "China doesn't allow foreign companies" is... unnuanced, to say the least.
- dillonmckay 6y ago
  Not to mention the NBA, too.
- greatjack613 6y ago
  ccp propaganda. Facts are Tesla was the first company allowed fully private ownership of ip in china. No other company has had that before.
  - dirtyid 6y ago
    Lucent and GM had WFOE arrangements (certain plants) in the mid 90s. Artcile from 1997. https://hbr.org/1997/03/entering-china-an-unconventional-approach https://hbr.org/1997/03/entering-china-an-unconventional-app...
  - FooBarWidget 6y ago
    I did say that the reforms a pretty recent, didn’t I?
- starky 6y ago
  >Heck, walk down the street in China for 10 minutes and you'll see more McDonalds and StarBucks than you've ever seen in your life. Also KFC, I've been to China and Asia many times and I'm still surprised at just how many KFCs there are.