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Last month I set out to learn proper touch-typing (after 25+ years on computers). And though I type more accurate now, which brings a certain kind of satisfact

Last month I set out to learn proper touch-typing (after 25+ years on computers). And though I type more accurate now, which brings a certain kind of satisfaction, I'm also slower (I seem to plateau). According to Typing Trainer I was "Fast" (self-taught, many errors) and now "Average" (proper, less errors). However nice this is for my backspace key I still would like to improve. Maybe I need to practice more, but I don't think a keyboard like this will help because I already never look at my keyboard. I have thought about becoming better by using a device that would attach wires to your fingers (or a glove) that correspond with keys, and the keys will only register when hit with the right finger (I find myself cheating now/falling back to old ways when I want to go fast). Something like this should exist, right?

AdrianoKF 6y ago
I'm in the same boat as you! Just started working on proper touch-typing a few weeks ago, as I sometimes found myself being ashamed of my self-taught ~7-finger typing system. Commenting primarily to see what others have to say about your idea, since I can notice that sometimes when I don't pay full attention I tend to use my "old" mental keymap and cheat a little bit.
- dabeeeenster 6y ago
  Im in exactly the same boat. I was thinking something like this might be so radically different that it breaks my bad habits? https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ Not cheap but I would pay a lot to be able to forget how to type and start from scratch, properly...
- Avamander 6y ago
  If you consistently push yourself towards touch-typing, there seems to be a slow increase after the first plateau. Depending on your age it'll take more or less time.
- Zenbit_UX 6y ago
  Maybe see my other comment I replied to OP, it may provide you some insight.
StavrosK 6y ago
I switched keyboards to a linear one in December, which forced me to learn to touch-type properly (I need to write a post about that). I have the same experience as you, I only got slower, without any other benefits. "Proper" touch typing (I typed without looking before too, but not the "proper" way) is overrated and has proven to me less useful than the way I was used to.
- yomly 6y ago
  "Proper" makes sense until it doesn't. When you play the piano there are all kinds of recommended fingerings, until you realise that you don't have the same shaped hand as the person who recommended them or you started on a different finger so can't quite get into the optimal fingering. Worse (IIRC), "proper" touch typing exists in a vacuum and has no context of the prior keypresses - rotating fingers or even switching hands at the boundary is going to lead to faster typing when you remove the artificial restrictions of "proper" typing. BUT when you cannot touch type at all the notion of "proper" fingering provides a framework to work within and helps to form best practices that combat things like "press every key with index finger". You'll see this in many skills and sports: Beginner - no knowledge of the rules Intermediate - can apply the rules Expert - breaks the rules to achieve greater performance Master - creates new rules Ultimately the best fingering for touch typing is the one which leads you to type the fastest and most accurate with the least amount of energy/effort. Achieving the optimal fingering as declared by someone else isn't really the goal.
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    True, but linear keyboard force you to use proper touch typing because the keys are too far for anything else. I wouldn't recommend them, even though I otherwise love mine.
    - dsissitka 6y ago
      What do you mean by linear? I can think of linear switches and ortholinear layouts but neither really seem to fit.
vegannet 6y ago
I have the same problem: I can type fast but not properly — 120 wpm with 2 fingers — and any attempt I’ve made to learn to type “properly” has decreased my error rate... and my speed so much that any error-rate reduction gains aren’t worth it. I feel like, after typing a specific way for decades, it’s practically impossible to ever change effectively.
- hawkisdead 6y ago
  wait what, you are hitting a 120 word per minute average with only two fingers? how.
  - RMPR 6y ago
    This (non-)method is more common than one may think, I know plenty of people on the Discord of 10fastfingers.com who are doing so.
- BigJono 6y ago
  Interesting. I also typed 120 wpm with 2 fingers for years. I think this is the first time I've heard of anyone else typing that fast with 2 fingers. I made the switch late in high school since I started getting carpal tunnel symptoms and figured there was a good chance it was related. I actually made the switch to proper touch typing by re-learning to type from scratch on a Dvorak layout, using blank keys (or Qwerty-marked keyboards, which is practically the same thing). I tried to switch and stay on Qwerty, but I'd just revert back to two fingers since it was so much faster, then my wrist pain would come back. To give you a bit of motivation if you ever have to switch, I switched in November 2009 doing races on typeracer.com. Within a week I was at 45 wpm, by the end of November it was 70 wpm. I averaged 80 in January, and 90 in March. So it took maybe a few weeks to get to 'usable' speeds, and a few months to get back to 'fast' (which felt right for daily use). This was doing bugger all practice too, each race is a minute or so and I did maybe 500 races this whole period? Literally 3-5 minutes a day, absolutely nothing. If you put actual effort into practicing you could probably regain your speed way quicker. From there it slowed right down obviously. It took a few years to get back to 110, then half a decade to get to 120. That's probably to be expected, but realistically you're not going to notice the difference between 120 and 100 in daily use, so it's not a big deal. Also, the interesting thing is, touch typing with Dvorak doesn't train you to touch type in Qwerty. Even after over a decade I still have the muscle memory to type with 2 fingers in Qwerty. Once every year or two I'll have to use somebody else's keyboard at work and I'll have to pull out the two finger technique, which must be hilarious for everyone watching. Just typing Qwerty for a few moments once a year or so I can still do around 60 wpm, which is insane when you think about it. I guess it's like riding a bike.
Zenbit_UX 6y ago
There's an interesting discovery scientist have made about those learning a second language or a new skill. They learn at an incredible rate when they first start (as you'd expect) and it eventually starts to slow down over time (again, as you'd expect) until it hits a plateau, at which it sometimes never overcomes (or it does but stops at the next plateau). I believe they call this the OK-Plateau, for how you feel about your new skills when you reach this point, OK. The idea is, learning levels off when we internally (and often subconsciously) determine we're "good enough" at a certain thing. For language learner's it may be when they decide they're conversational, or when they one day stop bothering to look up new words because they think their vocabulary is good enough for their needs. You're likely at this point and need to critically examine your weaknesses and make a plan to train them if you really want to progress. On an interesting side note here, this is often the value that coaches provide to aspiring athletes, someone who can identify your plateaus by analyzing your movement, abilities, etc.. and plan your training to isolate and tackle them.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

AdrianoKF 6y ago

I'm in the same boat as you! Just started working on proper touch-typing a few weeks ago, as I sometimes found myself being ashamed of my self-taught ~7-finger typing system. Commenting primarily to see what others have to say about your idea, since I can notice that sometimes when I don't pay full attention I tend to use my "old" mental keymap and cheat a little bit.

dabeeeenster 6y ago
Im in exactly the same boat. I was thinking something like this might be so radically different that it breaks my bad habits? https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ Not cheap but I would pay a lot to be able to forget how to type and start from scratch, properly...
Avamander 6y ago
If you consistently push yourself towards touch-typing, there seems to be a slow increase after the first plateau. Depending on your age it'll take more or less time.
Zenbit_UX 6y ago
Maybe see my other comment I replied to OP, it may provide you some insight.

StavrosK 6y ago

I switched keyboards to a linear one in December, which forced me to learn to touch-type properly (I need to write a post about that). I have the same experience as you, I only got slower, without any other benefits. "Proper" touch typing (I typed without looking before too, but not the "proper" way) is overrated and has proven to me less useful than the way I was used to.

yomly 6y ago
"Proper" makes sense until it doesn't. When you play the piano there are all kinds of recommended fingerings, until you realise that you don't have the same shaped hand as the person who recommended them or you started on a different finger so can't quite get into the optimal fingering. Worse (IIRC), "proper" touch typing exists in a vacuum and has no context of the prior keypresses - rotating fingers or even switching hands at the boundary is going to lead to faster typing when you remove the artificial restrictions of "proper" typing. BUT when you cannot touch type at all the notion of "proper" fingering provides a framework to work within and helps to form best practices that combat things like "press every key with index finger". You'll see this in many skills and sports: Beginner - no knowledge of the rules Intermediate - can apply the rules Expert - breaks the rules to achieve greater performance Master - creates new rules Ultimately the best fingering for touch typing is the one which leads you to type the fastest and most accurate with the least amount of energy/effort. Achieving the optimal fingering as declared by someone else isn't really the goal.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  True, but linear keyboard force you to use proper touch typing because the keys are too far for anything else. I wouldn't recommend them, even though I otherwise love mine.
  - dsissitka 6y ago
    What do you mean by linear? I can think of linear switches and ortholinear layouts but neither really seem to fit.

vegannet 6y ago

I have the same problem: I can type fast but not properly — 120 wpm with 2 fingers — and any attempt I’ve made to learn to type “properly” has decreased my error rate... and my speed so much that any error-rate reduction gains aren’t worth it. I feel like, after typing a specific way for decades, it’s practically impossible to ever change effectively.

hawkisdead 6y ago
wait what, you are hitting a 120 word per minute average with only two fingers? how.
- RMPR 6y ago
  This (non-)method is more common than one may think, I know plenty of people on the Discord of 10fastfingers.com who are doing so.
BigJono 6y ago
Interesting. I also typed 120 wpm with 2 fingers for years. I think this is the first time I've heard of anyone else typing that fast with 2 fingers. I made the switch late in high school since I started getting carpal tunnel symptoms and figured there was a good chance it was related. I actually made the switch to proper touch typing by re-learning to type from scratch on a Dvorak layout, using blank keys (or Qwerty-marked keyboards, which is practically the same thing). I tried to switch and stay on Qwerty, but I'd just revert back to two fingers since it was so much faster, then my wrist pain would come back. To give you a bit of motivation if you ever have to switch, I switched in November 2009 doing races on typeracer.com. Within a week I was at 45 wpm, by the end of November it was 70 wpm. I averaged 80 in January, and 90 in March. So it took maybe a few weeks to get to 'usable' speeds, and a few months to get back to 'fast' (which felt right for daily use). This was doing bugger all practice too, each race is a minute or so and I did maybe 500 races this whole period? Literally 3-5 minutes a day, absolutely nothing. If you put actual effort into practicing you could probably regain your speed way quicker. From there it slowed right down obviously. It took a few years to get back to 110, then half a decade to get to 120. That's probably to be expected, but realistically you're not going to notice the difference between 120 and 100 in daily use, so it's not a big deal. Also, the interesting thing is, touch typing with Dvorak doesn't train you to touch type in Qwerty. Even after over a decade I still have the muscle memory to type with 2 fingers in Qwerty. Once every year or two I'll have to use somebody else's keyboard at work and I'll have to pull out the two finger technique, which must be hilarious for everyone watching. Just typing Qwerty for a few moments once a year or so I can still do around 60 wpm, which is insane when you think about it. I guess it's like riding a bike.

Zenbit_UX 6y ago

There's an interesting discovery scientist have made about those learning a second language or a new skill. They learn at an incredible rate when they first start (as you'd expect) and it eventually starts to slow down over time (again, as you'd expect) until it hits a plateau, at which it sometimes never overcomes (or it does but stops at the next plateau). I believe they call this the OK-Plateau, for how you feel about your new skills when you reach this point, OK. The idea is, learning levels off when we internally (and often subconsciously) determine we're "good enough" at a certain thing. For language learner's it may be when they decide they're conversational, or when they one day stop bothering to look up new words because they think their vocabulary is good enough for their needs. You're likely at this point and need to critically examine your weaknesses and make a plan to train them if you really want to progress. On an interesting side note here, this is often the value that coaches provide to aspiring athletes, someone who can identify your plateaus by analyzing your movement, abilities, etc.. and plan your training to isolate and tackle them.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]