17 ms·

I think the union rep from Handels is correct. They'll get Amazon to cave. Amazon is the quintessential hill to die on for the unions and the labour laws are i

I think the union rep from Handels is correct. They'll get Amazon to cave. Amazon is the quintessential hill to die on for the unions and the labour laws are incredibly strong in Sweden. Here's how I think it might play out if Amazon refuses to sign: - Handels requests collective bargaining - Amazon declines but are sued in court and loses (you are required to bargain) - Negotiations fail and Amazon refuses to sign - The union realises that this is their David v Goliath and blockades the company - Amazon refuses to cave - The union declares widespread "sympathetic strikes". - in the end garbage collectors will refuse to pick up garbage at their warehouse. Electricians will refuse to service their warehouse. Plumbers will not plumb. Workers, builders, postmen etc will all simply stop servicing Amazon. Companies that deal with Amazon can also be put in a blockade. - Amazon will also receive zero support for from politicians for two reasons, first it's not a political matter. Second even the right wing opposition party will know better than to go against the electorate on this matter. It's simply not possible to operate a large scale business in Sweden without support of the labour unions (or by having workers conditions that exceed the perceived minimum). If a large scale business wants to operate in the country they _must_ sign a collective bargaining agreement.

Cederfjard 6y ago
For a case study, look up Toys R Us' entry into Sweden.
- spindle 6y ago
  Could you suggest something specific to read please? Thank you.
  - bildung 6y ago
    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03/18/sweden-retail-unions_n_6888328.html https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03/18/sweden-retail-union... TL;DR: refusal to sign a collective agreement escalated into an all-out boycott of the company. In the end, the workers won. "Toys “R” Us was both an exception to the rule —even McDonald's was forced to sign a collective agreement — and a warning for other corporations that they must adapt to the Swedish model or fail"
    - spindle 6y ago
      Thank you!
mongol 6y ago
I think you are mostly right. But I cannot recall when the last time was when the unions blockaded a company of Amazon's size. All my memories of this from the news involved smaller businesses, which of course crumble under the pressure. If plumbers and electricians will blockade, that is one thing, it might be possible to source these services from abroad. But if delivery drivers will not show up that is something entirely different, that is so central to their business that it is hard to circumvent. This is maybe not a fight Amazon is eager to have in any case. So I think it will play out slightly different.
me_me_me 6y ago
This sounds like a political system for people that actually works for people not against them.
- missedthecue 6y ago
  It has adverse effects, the unemployment rate and particularly the youth unemployment rate are quite high in Sweden (pre-covid). Indeed, the median disposable income per person (adjusted for purchasing power) in the US is almost $20,000 higher than in Sweden, even after further adjustments for transfers in kind received by households, such health or education provided for free or at reduced prices by government and NPISHs. https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-disposable-income.htm https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-disposable-income.htm
  - me_me_me 6y ago
    >Indeed, the median disposable income per person (adjusted for purchasing power) in the US is almost $20,000 higher than in Sweden I don't know, that sounds off to me. I have seen article about US preparedness for covid, and it said that some crazy percentage of people have no more than $1000 in savings. It was something around 40%. Maybe this $20,000 higher than in Sweden, is result of median outliers ultra rich that push the true average income of an average person.
Krisando 6y ago
> They'll get Amazon to cave. I'm not so sure, and I'll explain why below on one of your points. > in the end garbage collectors will refuse to pick up garbage at their warehouse. Electricians will refuse to service their warehouse. Plumbers will not plumb. Workers, builders, postmen etc will all simply stop servicing Amazon. Companies that deal with Amazon can also be put in a blockade. Outside of employing builders directly, it's my understanding that Amazon has previously operated in-house alternatives for those, particularly to reduce the costs in their supply chain and operations. I wonder if this would lead to Amazon instead scaling up the self sufficiency instead?
- eckesicle 6y ago
  You absolutely have a point but I also think that you perhaps don't have the social or historical context to understand how deeply rooted unions are in Swedish society. The Toysrus strike has been mentioned and at the time the unions did not even use all means at their disposal. In the event of a general strike bus drivers could well refuse to stop at bus stops servicing the warehouse. Banks will refuse to process transactions for the company. Members will refuse to give them their business (4 million or so out of the total 10 million population). All of this happened to Toysrus. Nearly 90% of workers in the country are members of a union and most will follow a general boycott if urged to do so. There really isn't much of a choice here. They don't have to sign an agreement, but they certainly will not be profitable unless they do.
  - Krisando 6y ago
    That's really interesting; also, one of my Swedish friends learned something new, he wasn't aware of that before either.
  - mongol 6y ago
    Did banks really refuse to process their transactions? That is union overreach I would say.
    - spanhandler 6y ago

Cederfjard 6y ago

For a case study, look up Toys R Us' entry into Sweden.

spindle 6y ago
Could you suggest something specific to read please? Thank you.
- bildung 6y ago
  https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03/18/sweden-retail-unions_n_6888328.html https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03/18/sweden-retail-union... TL;DR: refusal to sign a collective agreement escalated into an all-out boycott of the company. In the end, the workers won. "Toys “R” Us was both an exception to the rule —even McDonald's was forced to sign a collective agreement — and a warning for other corporations that they must adapt to the Swedish model or fail"
  - spindle 6y ago
    Thank you!

mongol 6y ago

I think you are mostly right. But I cannot recall when the last time was when the unions blockaded a company of Amazon's size. All my memories of this from the news involved smaller businesses, which of course crumble under the pressure. If plumbers and electricians will blockade, that is one thing, it might be possible to source these services from abroad. But if delivery drivers will not show up that is something entirely different, that is so central to their business that it is hard to circumvent. This is maybe not a fight Amazon is eager to have in any case. So I think it will play out slightly different.

me_me_me 6y ago

This sounds like a political system for people that actually works for people not against them.

missedthecue 6y ago
It has adverse effects, the unemployment rate and particularly the youth unemployment rate are quite high in Sweden (pre-covid). Indeed, the median disposable income per person (adjusted for purchasing power) in the US is almost $20,000 higher than in Sweden, even after further adjustments for transfers in kind received by households, such health or education provided for free or at reduced prices by government and NPISHs. https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-disposable-income.htm https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-disposable-income.htm
- me_me_me 6y ago
  >Indeed, the median disposable income per person (adjusted for purchasing power) in the US is almost $20,000 higher than in Sweden I don't know, that sounds off to me. I have seen article about US preparedness for covid, and it said that some crazy percentage of people have no more than $1000 in savings. It was something around 40%. Maybe this $20,000 higher than in Sweden, is result of median outliers ultra rich that push the true average income of an average person.

Krisando 6y ago

> They'll get Amazon to cave. I'm not so sure, and I'll explain why below on one of your points. > in the end garbage collectors will refuse to pick up garbage at their warehouse. Electricians will refuse to service their warehouse. Plumbers will not plumb. Workers, builders, postmen etc will all simply stop servicing Amazon. Companies that deal with Amazon can also be put in a blockade. Outside of employing builders directly, it's my understanding that Amazon has previously operated in-house alternatives for those, particularly to reduce the costs in their supply chain and operations. I wonder if this would lead to Amazon instead scaling up the self sufficiency instead?

eckesicle 6y ago
You absolutely have a point but I also think that you perhaps don't have the social or historical context to understand how deeply rooted unions are in Swedish society. The Toysrus strike has been mentioned and at the time the unions did not even use all means at their disposal. In the event of a general strike bus drivers could well refuse to stop at bus stops servicing the warehouse. Banks will refuse to process transactions for the company. Members will refuse to give them their business (4 million or so out of the total 10 million population). All of this happened to Toysrus. Nearly 90% of workers in the country are members of a union and most will follow a general boycott if urged to do so. There really isn't much of a choice here. They don't have to sign an agreement, but they certainly will not be profitable unless they do.
- Krisando 6y ago
  That's really interesting; also, one of my Swedish friends learned something new, he wasn't aware of that before either.
- mongol 6y ago
  Did banks really refuse to process their transactions? That is union overreach I would say.
  - spanhandler 6y ago