6 ms·

As a developer, my process is ~70% thinking and debugging, and less than 30% actual typing. I never understood the fascination with typing optimization, it is

As a developer, my process is ~70% thinking and debugging, and less than 30% actual typing. I never understood the fascination with typing optimization, it is not like I'm a stenographer. But maybe I'm missing something.

aspyct 6y ago
Touch typing isn't only about speed. It's also about health and RSI, especially if you use an ergonomic layout like a Dvorak. For me it made a difference, and I went from feeling pain after an hour of typing, to being able to type all day without the slightest issue.
- Avamander 6y ago
  It's also about accuracy and being able not to look at the damn keyboard when typing. My thoughts "flow" from my mind to my computer without extra effort or mistakes. That seems to be the biggest win to me.
toast0 6y ago
I can type at maybe 70 wpm. It's useful for chatting more than for developing. I learned keyboarding technique in grade school (PAWS) and mostly ignored proper technique, but took a keyboarding class in high school for fun, and was on IRC at the time, so lots of typing. At the beginning of class, my speed was faster with whatever I was doing, but at the end, proper technique won out, although I was faster and more accurate with both methods than at the beginning. I went through a Dvorak phase in college, it was fun, but switching layouts is weird, and qwerty is everywhere, so I stuck with the standard. I think most people could train up to about 60 wpm if they wanted to, but like 30-40 wpm is enough that you wouldn't normally be hindered by slow typing. You won't do great in Typer Shark or Typing of the Dead, but you should do alright. Edit to add: no labels is fine on letters, pretty brutal for all the keys.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  How about the reverse? I've been annoyed by VMs that are assuming a US keyboard layout. The letters are (mostly) in the usual places, but the punctuation (especially |) winds up no matter where.
  - Zenbit_UX 6y ago
    I think this is a problem for everyone who tries a keyboard from another locale. I've tried a British one before while traveling and it was extremely unpleasant to not have the keys where I expect. It seems by not having an international standard early on in computing we missed out on something here. Like how we drive on different sides of the road, use different plugs put interchange commas and periods for decimals. However, the most egregious violation of international missed opportunities has got to be sign language. I find it both incredibly hilarious and sad that two deaf people from different cultures can't communicate even though both do so in hand codes. We're truly a stupid species sometimes.
zmmmmm 6y ago
I think it's more about mind melding with the problem you are solving. Having absolutely nothing else cognitively distracting you from what you are doing gives you that additional working memory space to tackle complex problems. It's not sufficient, there are a bunch of other factors, but to my mind, if you have to think at all about typing, you can't achieve that top echelon of concentration.
westoque 6y ago
Here’s a video of geohot thinking and coding at the same time and you’ll see how fast typing helps him resolve ideas quickly: https://youtu.be/RFaFmkCEGEs https://youtu.be/RFaFmkCEGEs
- qayxc 6y ago
  Now I admit I'm not going to watch a 5h+ video, but from just skipping through the first hour or so, I don't see that at all.
ht85 6y ago
Doesn't that mean typing 20% faster would save you half an hour on a given workday?
- Zenbit_UX 6y ago
  As someone who isn't a traditional touch typer but whose self taught method gets me ~90wpm. That's highly unlikely. My limitations are never finger bound. If I'm thinking of what to write I never find myself frustrated that I just can't get these ideas out of my head fast enough. Most of my time (like the person you're replying to) is solving the problems in my head and even refining my solution mentally as well. Very little typing is needed on most days in an ide. I wouldn't be surprised if I typed more into DDG than an ide on some days.
WildGreenLeave 6y ago
As a developer, I think my process is more like ~50% thinking and debugging and ~50% actual typing. That latter 50% is divided into 20% typing code but about 30% typing mails/slack/tasks or whatever I need to do to update other people (without calling, because that is scary :-))
baq 6y ago
if you count typing emails or IMs as thinking or work mostly solo then you're right. in a large team being able to type an email quickly is quite useful.
mulmen 6y ago
30% is a lot. For me when I actually am typing it is a complete thought already and now I am waiting to get it out so I can move on to the next thing. If I could type infinitely fast I could spend 100% of my time thinking.
DanBC 6y ago
> I never understood the fascination with typing optimization Touch typing is about the combination of speed and accuracy. You're right that in these discussions people always talk about speed, but that hidden accuracy bonus is useful for everyone.
vladvasiliu 6y ago
As others have said, it's not just a question of going faster. It's a question of comfort and not having to fight things. Having an uncomfortable chair or dim / washed out / fuzzy screen is not going to change if your code is right or wrong, but it's something less that's bugging you. For the question at hand, I'm inclined to think that what matters most is not so much typing speed as typing accuracy. If I have to constantly go back and fix a typo it's a just a PITA. I'm by no means a fast typist, but I think I make fairly few errors. So whenever I have to use an unfamiliar keyboard, the biggest issue I have is mistyping things and having to constantly go back and fix them. Also, modifier keys not being where I expect them aggravates me to no end.
gitgud 6y ago
Sometimes the brain is the bottleneck of development, other times it's the fingers...
schwartzworld 6y ago
Some people have fun optimizing their workspace and habits. We spend a lot of time at our computers and tweaking things adds a more interesting veneer. So they try things like different monitor setups or learning to touch type. The benefit probably doesn't outweigh the effort, but not everything needs to pay off like that.
cuddlybacon 6y ago
The more time spent typing, the less you have for thinking and debugging. Hypothetically, someone with a hunt and peck technique might be 40/60. Someone with a self taught but undisciplined technique could be 60/40. Someone with standard touch typing might be 70/30. Someone who does regular typing drills could be 80/20. Given the thinking and debugging is where are value comes from, the typing is just how we make it tangible, by improving your typing you are improving your value. I see this comment on almost every HN and r/programming thread about typing. It always puts an idea in my head of a programmer who has to stop and ponder between every keystroke.

aspyct 6y ago

Touch typing isn't only about speed. It's also about health and RSI, especially if you use an ergonomic layout like a Dvorak. For me it made a difference, and I went from feeling pain after an hour of typing, to being able to type all day without the slightest issue.

Avamander 6y ago
It's also about accuracy and being able not to look at the damn keyboard when typing. My thoughts "flow" from my mind to my computer without extra effort or mistakes. That seems to be the biggest win to me.

toast0 6y ago

I can type at maybe 70 wpm. It's useful for chatting more than for developing. I learned keyboarding technique in grade school (PAWS) and mostly ignored proper technique, but took a keyboarding class in high school for fun, and was on IRC at the time, so lots of typing. At the beginning of class, my speed was faster with whatever I was doing, but at the end, proper technique won out, although I was faster and more accurate with both methods than at the beginning. I went through a Dvorak phase in college, it was fun, but switching layouts is weird, and qwerty is everywhere, so I stuck with the standard. I think most people could train up to about 60 wpm if they wanted to, but like 30-40 wpm is enough that you wouldn't normally be hindered by slow typing. You won't do great in Typer Shark or Typing of the Dead, but you should do alright. Edit to add: no labels is fine on letters, pretty brutal for all the keys.

082349872349872 6y ago
How about the reverse? I've been annoyed by VMs that are assuming a US keyboard layout. The letters are (mostly) in the usual places, but the punctuation (especially |) winds up no matter where.
- Zenbit_UX 6y ago
  I think this is a problem for everyone who tries a keyboard from another locale. I've tried a British one before while traveling and it was extremely unpleasant to not have the keys where I expect. It seems by not having an international standard early on in computing we missed out on something here. Like how we drive on different sides of the road, use different plugs put interchange commas and periods for decimals. However, the most egregious violation of international missed opportunities has got to be sign language. I find it both incredibly hilarious and sad that two deaf people from different cultures can't communicate even though both do so in hand codes. We're truly a stupid species sometimes.

zmmmmm 6y ago

I think it's more about mind melding with the problem you are solving. Having absolutely nothing else cognitively distracting you from what you are doing gives you that additional working memory space to tackle complex problems. It's not sufficient, there are a bunch of other factors, but to my mind, if you have to think at all about typing, you can't achieve that top echelon of concentration.

westoque 6y ago

Here’s a video of geohot thinking and coding at the same time and you’ll see how fast typing helps him resolve ideas quickly: https://youtu.be/RFaFmkCEGEs https://youtu.be/RFaFmkCEGEs

qayxc 6y ago
Now I admit I'm not going to watch a 5h+ video, but from just skipping through the first hour or so, I don't see that at all.

ht85 6y ago

Doesn't that mean typing 20% faster would save you half an hour on a given workday?

Zenbit_UX 6y ago
As someone who isn't a traditional touch typer but whose self taught method gets me ~90wpm. That's highly unlikely. My limitations are never finger bound. If I'm thinking of what to write I never find myself frustrated that I just can't get these ideas out of my head fast enough. Most of my time (like the person you're replying to) is solving the problems in my head and even refining my solution mentally as well. Very little typing is needed on most days in an ide. I wouldn't be surprised if I typed more into DDG than an ide on some days.

WildGreenLeave 6y ago

As a developer, I think my process is more like ~50% thinking and debugging and ~50% actual typing. That latter 50% is divided into 20% typing code but about 30% typing mails/slack/tasks or whatever I need to do to update other people (without calling, because that is scary :-))

baq 6y ago

if you count typing emails or IMs as thinking or work mostly solo then you're right. in a large team being able to type an email quickly is quite useful.

mulmen 6y ago

30% is a lot. For me when I actually am typing it is a complete thought already and now I am waiting to get it out so I can move on to the next thing. If I could type infinitely fast I could spend 100% of my time thinking.

DanBC 6y ago

> I never understood the fascination with typing optimization Touch typing is about the combination of speed and accuracy. You're right that in these discussions people always talk about speed, but that hidden accuracy bonus is useful for everyone.

vladvasiliu 6y ago

As others have said, it's not just a question of going faster. It's a question of comfort and not having to fight things. Having an uncomfortable chair or dim / washed out / fuzzy screen is not going to change if your code is right or wrong, but it's something less that's bugging you. For the question at hand, I'm inclined to think that what matters most is not so much typing speed as typing accuracy. If I have to constantly go back and fix a typo it's a just a PITA. I'm by no means a fast typist, but I think I make fairly few errors. So whenever I have to use an unfamiliar keyboard, the biggest issue I have is mistyping things and having to constantly go back and fix them. Also, modifier keys not being where I expect them aggravates me to no end.

gitgud 6y ago

Sometimes the brain is the bottleneck of development, other times it's the fingers...

schwartzworld 6y ago

Some people have fun optimizing their workspace and habits. We spend a lot of time at our computers and tweaking things adds a more interesting veneer. So they try things like different monitor setups or learning to touch type. The benefit probably doesn't outweigh the effort, but not everything needs to pay off like that.

cuddlybacon 6y ago

The more time spent typing, the less you have for thinking and debugging. Hypothetically, someone with a hunt and peck technique might be 40/60. Someone with a self taught but undisciplined technique could be 60/40. Someone with standard touch typing might be 70/30. Someone who does regular typing drills could be 80/20. Given the thinking and debugging is where are value comes from, the typing is just how we make it tangible, by improving your typing you are improving your value. I see this comment on almost every HN and r/programming thread about typing. It always puts an idea in my head of a programmer who has to stop and ponder between every keystroke.