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Also, let's not forget, the Ukrainian government was just over thrown by a western-backed coup. Of course, you won't know that from the Wikipedia cliff notes,

Also, let's not forget, the Ukrainian government was just over thrown by a western-backed coup. Of course, you won't know that from the Wikipedia cliff notes, but that's what happened.

macinjosh 6y ago
Exactly, reminds me of when Asst. Sec. of State Victoria Nuland went and handed out sandwiches to supporters of the coup in the Maidan! And we have the nerve to be upset when other countries meddle in our affairs? How would we feel if a high-level Russian diplomat went out on the streets in the DC protests and handed out food to members of antifa or the alt-right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztt72mpTPXA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztt72mpTPXA
- wavefunction 6y ago
  But did we get free sandwiches? Then I'll see your false equivalency with an escalation of the rhetoric. DENIED
  - macinjosh 6y ago
    You failed to explain how or why its a false equivalency. Meddling is meddling.
- dmix 6y ago
  I inherently don't like these sorts whataboutism used in your comment, it's a poor approach to questioning the morality/strategy of any country and but-the-US-did-x-minor-thing has long been used by dictators and the like to justify horrible things. Especially when it's not even top-down but a single phone call of some mid-tier diplomat. That said, after reading Nuland's Wikipedia her brazenness is something I'd expect more from the old CIA than the modern state dept. It's rich hearing her protest against Russian interference in the sovereignty of another country while trying to play the cocky puppet-master role in the background over the future leadership of Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland?oldformat=true#Leaked_private_phone_conversation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland?oldformat=true... But the main forgiving grace is that she was only assistant for Europe which isn't top tier and in other cases has demonstrated a maverick streak, not a person receptive to operating under authority or established norms. She’s also super pro-intervention in general which is less popular these days. Most importantly this is not anywhere near the level of intervention shown by Russia. Really, it's extremely insignificant by comparison. Russia has long been grasping at straws to build the western intervention is just as bad conspiracy. If all Russia has is some heavy-handed backroom phone call by a minor diplomat then the US doesn't have much to worry about.
  - macinjosh 6y ago
    > I inherently don't like these sorts whataboutism used in your comment, it's a poor approach to questioning the morality/strategy of any country and but-the-US-did-x-minor-thing has long been used by dictators I am not questioning the morality or strategy. I am questioning the principles. Additionally, "minor-thing" is completely objective. What might seem like a minor action from the US POV on the other end things are often taken very differently. > Most importantly this is not anywhere near the level of intervention shown by Russia. Really, it's extremely insignificant by comparison. Again who gets to say what is or is not insignificant? Lastly, Nuland was the Assitant Secretary of State. That is a high-level position, not a mid-tier diplomat.
  - pydry 6y ago
    >Most importantly this is not anywhere near the level of intervention shown by Russia. A country that borders it and has been repeatedly invaded via it.

Also, let's not forget, the Ukrainian government was just over thrown by a western-backed coup. Of course, you won't know that from the Wikipedia cliff notes, but that's what happened.

macinjosh 6y ago

Exactly, reminds me of when Asst. Sec. of State Victoria Nuland went and handed out sandwiches to supporters of the coup in the Maidan! And we have the nerve to be upset when other countries meddle in our affairs? How would we feel if a high-level Russian diplomat went out on the streets in the DC protests and handed out food to members of antifa or the alt-right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztt72mpTPXA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztt72mpTPXA

wavefunction 6y ago
But did we get free sandwiches? Then I'll see your false equivalency with an escalation of the rhetoric. DENIED
- macinjosh 6y ago
  You failed to explain how or why its a false equivalency. Meddling is meddling.
dmix 6y ago
I inherently don't like these sorts whataboutism used in your comment, it's a poor approach to questioning the morality/strategy of any country and but-the-US-did-x-minor-thing has long been used by dictators and the like to justify horrible things. Especially when it's not even top-down but a single phone call of some mid-tier diplomat. That said, after reading Nuland's Wikipedia her brazenness is something I'd expect more from the old CIA than the modern state dept. It's rich hearing her protest against Russian interference in the sovereignty of another country while trying to play the cocky puppet-master role in the background over the future leadership of Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland?oldformat=true#Leaked_private_phone_conversation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland?oldformat=true... But the main forgiving grace is that she was only assistant for Europe which isn't top tier and in other cases has demonstrated a maverick streak, not a person receptive to operating under authority or established norms. She’s also super pro-intervention in general which is less popular these days. Most importantly this is not anywhere near the level of intervention shown by Russia. Really, it's extremely insignificant by comparison. Russia has long been grasping at straws to build the western intervention is just as bad conspiracy. If all Russia has is some heavy-handed backroom phone call by a minor diplomat then the US doesn't have much to worry about.
- macinjosh 6y ago
  > I inherently don't like these sorts whataboutism used in your comment, it's a poor approach to questioning the morality/strategy of any country and but-the-US-did-x-minor-thing has long been used by dictators I am not questioning the morality or strategy. I am questioning the principles. Additionally, "minor-thing" is completely objective. What might seem like a minor action from the US POV on the other end things are often taken very differently. > Most importantly this is not anywhere near the level of intervention shown by Russia. Really, it's extremely insignificant by comparison. Again who gets to say what is or is not insignificant? Lastly, Nuland was the Assitant Secretary of State. That is a high-level position, not a mid-tier diplomat.
- pydry 6y ago
  >Most importantly this is not anywhere near the level of intervention shown by Russia. A country that borders it and has been repeatedly invaded via it.