5 ms·

“Virtue signaling” meaning standing against homophobia. Just say what you mean.

war1025 6y ago
I was going to say "virtue signalling to West coast liberals", but I decided to shorten things up a bit. Mozilla doesn't have any more business interest devoting resources to LGBT causes than Chick-Fil-A has a business interest in funding anti-LGBT causes. The difference is Chick-Fil-A makes money hand over fist and can afford to take its eye off the prize a little. Mozilla doesn't have that same luxury.
- cge 6y ago
  What prize and business interest are you referring to? The Mozilla Corporation is a company that must answer to its shareholders, and its only shareholder is the Mozilla Foundation. The Foundation, in turn, has interests determined by its board, and "an internet that includes all the peoples of the earth — where a person’s demographic characteristics do not determine their online access, opportunities, or quality of experience" is one of those interests (added formally to their manifesto in 2018, but likely the guiding idea behind the Eich matter). You could certainly disagree with the interests of the Mozilla Foundation's board, and could choose to support another organization, like Brave Software, that has different ones, but are you suggesting that a board should not be able to determine the interests, within legal limits, for a non-profit, or that the sole shareholder of a corporation should not be able to control its interests and mission?
  - war1025 6y ago
    > You could certainly disagree with the interests of the Mozilla Foundation's board Right. They can choose to do whatever they want, it's their call. My point is Mozilla has pretty clearly been in some tough straits for a while now trying to remain relevant. Now they are having to lay people off. In my opinion, they have bigger issues to worry about as a corporation than social values, etc. But also I'm just a random nobody on the internet, so what's it really matter?
    - nativeit-net 6y ago
      I'm not sure I understand why establishing social values shouldn't be a vital component of any organization, particularly a non-profit organization dedicated to equality and openness, that employs a large number of people and relationships with the public and any number of third-parties? I'm actually not sure it's operationally possible to ignore them as a large public organization. Further, how much time and resources do you think it really takes to identify and define a code of values? Seems like it wouldn't necessarily require the full-time focus of even one member of staff and the very occasional meeting.
- chipotle_coyote 6y ago
  One can argue that Chick-Fil-A has made homophobia part of their business interests. Unlike Mr. Eich, who donated to homophobic political causes with his own money, the outrage at Chick-Fil-A stems from them using their corporate foundation to make such donations. So Eich's case is, despite superficial resemblance, markedly different. Mozilla built a brand around openness and the idea of "putting people first" and making them feel "empowered, safe and independent." (Those quotes are from at least one version of their mission statement.) Eich's backing of the anti-gay-marriage initiative was a PR problem for them in a way that it might not have been for many other companies. Also, he violated the first rule of holes (i.e., when you're in one, stop digging); it's possible they might have been able to do effective damage control without booting him if his initial response hadn't been, in so many words, "it's my money and I can do what I want with it." And, sure: it is, and he can. The CEO of a nonprofit Catholic hospital chain could also use their money to donate to Planned Parenthood. But, if they did, we can be reasonably sure the hospital's boards of directors would have words with them about it.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  Chicken sandwiches and web browsers are not a moral purpose for being. It is difficult to imagine both the priorities you have identified and the idea that you find love and hate to be equivalent purposes like rooting for different sports teams.
  - war1025 6y ago
    > like rooting for different sports teams. That's exactly what politics in the US is. It literally just boils down to that in terms of practical effect.
    - michaelmrose 6y ago
      One party has predictably made a mess of everything it touches including a pandemic response that will eventually kill over 200,000 Americans while suing end Obamacare which will if successful result in 20M Americans losing health care. The last time they were in power they started multiple wars that has cost us trillions of dollars and thousands of lives. I don't think we live in the same universe.

I was going to say "virtue signalling to West coast liberals", but I decided to shorten things up a bit. Mozilla doesn't have any more business interest devoting resources to LGBT causes than Chick-Fil-A has a business interest in funding anti-LGBT causes. The difference is Chick-Fil-A makes money hand over fist and can afford to take its eye off the prize a little. Mozilla doesn't have that same luxury.

cge 6y ago
What prize and business interest are you referring to? The Mozilla Corporation is a company that must answer to its shareholders, and its only shareholder is the Mozilla Foundation. The Foundation, in turn, has interests determined by its board, and "an internet that includes all the peoples of the earth — where a person’s demographic characteristics do not determine their online access, opportunities, or quality of experience" is one of those interests (added formally to their manifesto in 2018, but likely the guiding idea behind the Eich matter). You could certainly disagree with the interests of the Mozilla Foundation's board, and could choose to support another organization, like Brave Software, that has different ones, but are you suggesting that a board should not be able to determine the interests, within legal limits, for a non-profit, or that the sole shareholder of a corporation should not be able to control its interests and mission?
- war1025 6y ago
  > You could certainly disagree with the interests of the Mozilla Foundation's board Right. They can choose to do whatever they want, it's their call. My point is Mozilla has pretty clearly been in some tough straits for a while now trying to remain relevant. Now they are having to lay people off. In my opinion, they have bigger issues to worry about as a corporation than social values, etc. But also I'm just a random nobody on the internet, so what's it really matter?
  - nativeit-net 6y ago
    I'm not sure I understand why establishing social values shouldn't be a vital component of any organization, particularly a non-profit organization dedicated to equality and openness, that employs a large number of people and relationships with the public and any number of third-parties? I'm actually not sure it's operationally possible to ignore them as a large public organization. Further, how much time and resources do you think it really takes to identify and define a code of values? Seems like it wouldn't necessarily require the full-time focus of even one member of staff and the very occasional meeting.
chipotle_coyote 6y ago
One can argue that Chick-Fil-A has made homophobia part of their business interests. Unlike Mr. Eich, who donated to homophobic political causes with his own money, the outrage at Chick-Fil-A stems from them using their corporate foundation to make such donations. So Eich's case is, despite superficial resemblance, markedly different. Mozilla built a brand around openness and the idea of "putting people first" and making them feel "empowered, safe and independent." (Those quotes are from at least one version of their mission statement.) Eich's backing of the anti-gay-marriage initiative was a PR problem for them in a way that it might not have been for many other companies. Also, he violated the first rule of holes (i.e., when you're in one, stop digging); it's possible they might have been able to do effective damage control without booting him if his initial response hadn't been, in so many words, "it's my money and I can do what I want with it." And, sure: it is, and he can. The CEO of a nonprofit Catholic hospital chain could also use their money to donate to Planned Parenthood. But, if they did, we can be reasonably sure the hospital's boards of directors would have words with them about it.
michaelmrose 6y ago
Chicken sandwiches and web browsers are not a moral purpose for being. It is difficult to imagine both the priorities you have identified and the idea that you find love and hate to be equivalent purposes like rooting for different sports teams.
- war1025 6y ago
  > like rooting for different sports teams. That's exactly what politics in the US is. It literally just boils down to that in terms of practical effect.
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    One party has predictably made a mess of everything it touches including a pandemic response that will eventually kill over 200,000 Americans while suing end Obamacare which will if successful result in 20M Americans losing health care. The last time they were in power they started multiple wars that has cost us trillions of dollars and thousands of lives. I don't think we live in the same universe.