5 ms·

I'd like to see how it compares to https://github.com/amethyst/specs https://github.com/amethyst/specs, a rust-based ECS engine, for use in the multiplayer voxe

I'd like to see how it compares to https://github.com/amethyst/specs https://github.com/amethyst/specs, a rust-based ECS engine, for use in the multiplayer voxel world game Veloren (https://veloren.net https://veloren.net), or https://github.com/TomGillen/legion https://github.com/TomGillen/legion

meheleventyone 6y ago
There’s not a particularly thrilling benchmark here: https://bevyengine.org/news/introducing-bevy/ https://bevyengine.org/news/introducing-bevy/ Basically an ECS is not really a secret easy pattern to cache coherent data access. This benchmark shows its fast for the easy cases but says nothing about typical game requirements.
- adamnemecek 6y ago
  ECS has been used relatively heavily in game dev since like late 90's.
  - meheleventyone 6y ago
    So? That has nothing to do with the performance of an implementation which is what I commented on. Data oriented design is about managing data organisation to match access patterns in order to best exploit the hardware cache. That requires more design than simply using the ECS pattern. Which is why a lot of generic engines introduce other concepts like Grouping and Archetypes to try to alleviate this. And even if you do use a generic ECS engine with performance sensitive features it’s still perfectly feasible to end up thrashing. Also as a claim I also find this highly doubtful particularly as I’ve been working as a game developer for many years and not really seen it used on a single project in that time. There’s a reason why there are dozens of hobby implementations but no full scale games written using them.
    - adamnemecek 6y ago
      Serious sam and a lot of bohemia interactive games are written with ECS.
      - meheleventyone 6y ago
        They are? Because you can see the source for the Serious Engine 1 here: https://github.com/Croteam-official/Serious-Engine https://github.com/Croteam-official/Serious-Engine Looking at that it has way more in common with an OOPish inheritance/composition approach to entities than the ECS view of an entity being a primary key into a data store of components with a pipeline of systems acting in a component centric manner to update the game state.
    - Rhedox 6y ago
      Overwatch is built using an ECS. https://youtube.com/watch?v=W3aieHjyNvw https://youtube.com/watch?v=W3aieHjyNvw
donpdonp 6y ago
Here's a writeup comparing Specs (Amethyst sub-project) and Legion ECS. https://csherratt.github.io/blog/posts/specs-and-legion/ https://csherratt.github.io/blog/posts/specs-and-legion/

meheleventyone 6y ago

There’s not a particularly thrilling benchmark here: https://bevyengine.org/news/introducing-bevy/ https://bevyengine.org/news/introducing-bevy/ Basically an ECS is not really a secret easy pattern to cache coherent data access. This benchmark shows its fast for the easy cases but says nothing about typical game requirements.

adamnemecek 6y ago
ECS has been used relatively heavily in game dev since like late 90's.
- meheleventyone 6y ago
  So? That has nothing to do with the performance of an implementation which is what I commented on. Data oriented design is about managing data organisation to match access patterns in order to best exploit the hardware cache. That requires more design than simply using the ECS pattern. Which is why a lot of generic engines introduce other concepts like Grouping and Archetypes to try to alleviate this. And even if you do use a generic ECS engine with performance sensitive features it’s still perfectly feasible to end up thrashing. Also as a claim I also find this highly doubtful particularly as I’ve been working as a game developer for many years and not really seen it used on a single project in that time. There’s a reason why there are dozens of hobby implementations but no full scale games written using them.
  - adamnemecek 6y ago
    Serious sam and a lot of bohemia interactive games are written with ECS.
    - meheleventyone 6y ago
      They are? Because you can see the source for the Serious Engine 1 here: https://github.com/Croteam-official/Serious-Engine https://github.com/Croteam-official/Serious-Engine Looking at that it has way more in common with an OOPish inheritance/composition approach to entities than the ECS view of an entity being a primary key into a data store of components with a pipeline of systems acting in a component centric manner to update the game state.
  - Rhedox 6y ago
    Overwatch is built using an ECS. https://youtube.com/watch?v=W3aieHjyNvw https://youtube.com/watch?v=W3aieHjyNvw

donpdonp 6y ago

Here's a writeup comparing Specs (Amethyst sub-project) and Legion ECS. https://csherratt.github.io/blog/posts/specs-and-legion/ https://csherratt.github.io/blog/posts/specs-and-legion/