4 ms·

Better idea of course - abolish the TSA. I mean harshly enough the pandemic proves they don't really care about tens of thousands of lives so their justificatio

Better idea of course - abolish the TSA. I mean harshly enough the pandemic proves they don't really care about tens of thousands of lives so their justification for existence is even more moot - on top of their ineffectualness.

rootsudo 6y ago
The IDEA of the TSA is to standardize all port security, not just the x-ray of your stuff and making you wait in line.
- supercanuck 6y ago
  You don't need a Federal Agency to do that.
- BitwiseFool 6y ago
  I disagree, it's a federal jobs program under the guise of security theater.
  - clairity 6y ago
    it would be totally ok to be a federal jobs program if it actually provided unintrusive security. rather, the problem is that it's corrupt, funneling large amounts of tax dollars to private enterprise for no benefit and a boatload of individual slights. instead, the tsa should turn half of the nearly 50K screeners into canine teams roaming all the ports, letting people walk through with just an electronic bag screen.
    - Spooky23 6y ago
      That would be a better jobs program. You’d employ the various purveyors of dog care products, vets and other services, some of which benefit society in a more meaningful way than a rent a cop.
    - notJim 6y ago
      Better yet, why not a federal jobs program that does something useful?
      - blaser-waffle 6y ago
        I.E the CCC during the depression era.
        closetohome 6y ago
        If only the US were in dire need of massive infrastructure refurbishment projects.
  - oh_sigh 6y ago
    If the government wants to make jobs programs, it makes more sense to have the people getting the jobs do something productive rather than non-productive(if that is what you think the TSA is). For example, a lot of manual, mostly unskilled labor is needed for road maintenance and repair - why wouldn't the government just create/expand a jobs program for that instead?
    - monocasa 6y ago
      Because half the government thinks that the government shouldn't be doing things other than security theater?
    - katbyte 6y ago
      Because that would take precious jobs away from the private sector and the rich couldn’t get richer /s
- liability 6y ago
  That's the excuse, not the motivation.
- jedberg 6y ago
  Except that every port is allowed to choose if they use the TSA or not. San Francisco for example does not use the TSA.
  - clairity 6y ago
    afaik, the tsa is still in charge of port security at sfo, but the screening is outsourced to a private company.
    - jedberg 6y ago
      The TSA selects the contractor and gives them the rules of operations, but the contractor is in charge of execution. So, sort of?
  - outworlder 6y ago
    > Except that every port is allowed to choose if they use the TSA or not. San Francisco for example does not use the TSA. Then, somehow, they managed to make it even worse.
- bsder 6y ago
  Fine. Push TSA into non-public roles and give airport security back to the airports/airlines.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Yup, I'll bet airports and airlines won't cut corners to make sure profits keep flowing.
    - bsder 6y ago
      Given that TSA continues to absorb increasing amounts of boondoggle in return for actually making me LESS safe (giant lines outside the security perimeter are a wonderful target) I'll take the trade, thanks. And airline personnel have to abide by the law since they can be taken to court. That's a VAST improvement over the unaccountable TSA. And, oddly, the airlines actually didn't cut corners. What "needs to get caught" is well-defined, and all holy hell breaks over the heads of people if it doesn't get caught. Now, that means that airlines train their security to recognize the test firearm rather than actual general firearms, but that's a failure to define the problem correctly rather than cutting corners.
umvi 6y ago
9/11 will never happen again because the idea of a plane hijacking for ransom no longer exists in passengers' minds. If someone hijacks a plane now, the passengers assume the hijackers have suicidal intent and will curb stomp the hijackers to death or die trying. So in that regard I think TSA confiscating scissors and pen knives is just silly. A simple metal detector is sufficient for finding large weapons like guns. On the other hand, terrorists' only option now is to just destroy the plane and kill all the passengers onboard. Cabin doors are locked, so this involves blowing up a bomb concealed somewhere (checked luggage, shoes, liquid explosives, etc). How do you propose we detect whether someone is trying to smuggle a bomb on a plane without something like the TSA? Just keep an eye out for nervous passengers and report them? In other words, if we abolish the TSA tomorrow and replace it with metal detectors, what's to stop someone from bringing a few gallons of chemical explosives in their backpack, mixing them in the lavatory, and blowing up the plane? TSA has always caught when I accidentally left a full water bottle in my backpack.
- ladberg 6y ago
  I think in general there are more crowded and easily accessible places to blow up than a plane if you aren't planning on hijacking it, so I don't see anyone doing that anyway.
- jackson1442 6y ago
  I don't remember the actual statistic, so I'll lowball, but in an internal audit the TSA did not catch 70+% of contraband that was intentionally brought through security by the auditors.
  - adamhearn 6y ago
    They had a 96% failure to catch rate in 2015. https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/tsa-has-made-airport-security-worse-than-private-system/ https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/tsa-has-made-a...
- fuzxi 6y ago
  >In other words, if we abolish the TSA tomorrow and replace it with metal detectors, what's to stop someone from bringing a few gallons of chemical explosives in their backpack, mixing them in the lavatory, and blowing up the plane? The reality is that it's already feasible to sneak conventional weapons and explosives past TSA. Here are two fairly recent investigations on the TSA's efficacy, one from 2015 [1] and one from 2017 [2]. Both of these undercover investigations were performed by the Department of Homeland Security. The first one found that in 67 out of 70 tests, agents were able to get weapons past TSA, including a fake IED strapped to an agent's back. The second found that this failure rate dropped from 2015's staggering 95% to "in the ballpark" of 80%. Yes, the TSA always stops you when you bring a full water bottle. Eight times out of ten, they won't confiscate your gun or bomb. Even if they did, what's to stop someone from mixing chemicals to cause an explosion on a bus? Or in a crowded hotel? Or an elementary school? Or a mall? Or... In my opinion, there simply aren't that many people with both the desire and means to do these things. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-undercover-dhs-tests-find-widespread-security-failures/story?id=31434881 https://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-undercover-dhs-tests-fin... [2] https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188 https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-...
totetsu 6y ago
This article says that "Anti-immigration hardliners" want to trash the whole system on the way out. https://thebaffler.com/latest/scorched-earth-de-la-hoz https://thebaffler.com/latest/scorched-earth-de-la-hoz

rootsudo 6y ago

The IDEA of the TSA is to standardize all port security, not just the x-ray of your stuff and making you wait in line.

supercanuck 6y ago
You don't need a Federal Agency to do that.
BitwiseFool 6y ago
I disagree, it's a federal jobs program under the guise of security theater.
- clairity 6y ago
  it would be totally ok to be a federal jobs program if it actually provided unintrusive security. rather, the problem is that it's corrupt, funneling large amounts of tax dollars to private enterprise for no benefit and a boatload of individual slights. instead, the tsa should turn half of the nearly 50K screeners into canine teams roaming all the ports, letting people walk through with just an electronic bag screen.
  - Spooky23 6y ago
    That would be a better jobs program. You’d employ the various purveyors of dog care products, vets and other services, some of which benefit society in a more meaningful way than a rent a cop.
  - notJim 6y ago
    Better yet, why not a federal jobs program that does something useful?
    - blaser-waffle 6y ago
      I.E the CCC during the depression era.
      - closetohome 6y ago
        If only the US were in dire need of massive infrastructure refurbishment projects.
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  If the government wants to make jobs programs, it makes more sense to have the people getting the jobs do something productive rather than non-productive(if that is what you think the TSA is). For example, a lot of manual, mostly unskilled labor is needed for road maintenance and repair - why wouldn't the government just create/expand a jobs program for that instead?
  - monocasa 6y ago
    Because half the government thinks that the government shouldn't be doing things other than security theater?
  - katbyte 6y ago
    Because that would take precious jobs away from the private sector and the rich couldn’t get richer /s
liability 6y ago
That's the excuse, not the motivation.
jedberg 6y ago
Except that every port is allowed to choose if they use the TSA or not. San Francisco for example does not use the TSA.
- clairity 6y ago
  afaik, the tsa is still in charge of port security at sfo, but the screening is outsourced to a private company.
  - jedberg 6y ago
    The TSA selects the contractor and gives them the rules of operations, but the contractor is in charge of execution. So, sort of?
- outworlder 6y ago
  > Except that every port is allowed to choose if they use the TSA or not. San Francisco for example does not use the TSA. Then, somehow, they managed to make it even worse.
bsder 6y ago
Fine. Push TSA into non-public roles and give airport security back to the airports/airlines.
- refurb 6y ago
  Yup, I'll bet airports and airlines won't cut corners to make sure profits keep flowing.
  - bsder 6y ago
    Given that TSA continues to absorb increasing amounts of boondoggle in return for actually making me LESS safe (giant lines outside the security perimeter are a wonderful target) I'll take the trade, thanks. And airline personnel have to abide by the law since they can be taken to court. That's a VAST improvement over the unaccountable TSA. And, oddly, the airlines actually didn't cut corners. What "needs to get caught" is well-defined, and all holy hell breaks over the heads of people if it doesn't get caught. Now, that means that airlines train their security to recognize the test firearm rather than actual general firearms, but that's a failure to define the problem correctly rather than cutting corners.

umvi 6y ago

9/11 will never happen again because the idea of a plane hijacking for ransom no longer exists in passengers' minds. If someone hijacks a plane now, the passengers assume the hijackers have suicidal intent and will curb stomp the hijackers to death or die trying. So in that regard I think TSA confiscating scissors and pen knives is just silly. A simple metal detector is sufficient for finding large weapons like guns. On the other hand, terrorists' only option now is to just destroy the plane and kill all the passengers onboard. Cabin doors are locked, so this involves blowing up a bomb concealed somewhere (checked luggage, shoes, liquid explosives, etc). How do you propose we detect whether someone is trying to smuggle a bomb on a plane without something like the TSA? Just keep an eye out for nervous passengers and report them? In other words, if we abolish the TSA tomorrow and replace it with metal detectors, what's to stop someone from bringing a few gallons of chemical explosives in their backpack, mixing them in the lavatory, and blowing up the plane? TSA has always caught when I accidentally left a full water bottle in my backpack.

ladberg 6y ago
I think in general there are more crowded and easily accessible places to blow up than a plane if you aren't planning on hijacking it, so I don't see anyone doing that anyway.
jackson1442 6y ago
I don't remember the actual statistic, so I'll lowball, but in an internal audit the TSA did not catch 70+% of contraband that was intentionally brought through security by the auditors.
- adamhearn 6y ago
  They had a 96% failure to catch rate in 2015. https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/tsa-has-made-airport-security-worse-than-private-system/ https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/tsa-has-made-a...
fuzxi 6y ago
>In other words, if we abolish the TSA tomorrow and replace it with metal detectors, what's to stop someone from bringing a few gallons of chemical explosives in their backpack, mixing them in the lavatory, and blowing up the plane? The reality is that it's already feasible to sneak conventional weapons and explosives past TSA. Here are two fairly recent investigations on the TSA's efficacy, one from 2015 [1] and one from 2017 [2]. Both of these undercover investigations were performed by the Department of Homeland Security. The first one found that in 67 out of 70 tests, agents were able to get weapons past TSA, including a fake IED strapped to an agent's back. The second found that this failure rate dropped from 2015's staggering 95% to "in the ballpark" of 80%. Yes, the TSA always stops you when you bring a full water bottle. Eight times out of ten, they won't confiscate your gun or bomb. Even if they did, what's to stop someone from mixing chemicals to cause an explosion on a bus? Or in a crowded hotel? Or an elementary school? Or a mall? Or... In my opinion, there simply aren't that many people with both the desire and means to do these things. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-undercover-dhs-tests-find-widespread-security-failures/story?id=31434881 https://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-undercover-dhs-tests-fin... [2] https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188 https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-...

totetsu 6y ago

This article says that "Anti-immigration hardliners" want to trash the whole system on the way out. https://thebaffler.com/latest/scorched-earth-de-la-hoz https://thebaffler.com/latest/scorched-earth-de-la-hoz