6 ms·

I still think this is too limited. Analogous to how Keynes said classical / Ricardian economics discussed distribution of goods given a fixed level of producti

I still think this is too limited. Analogous to how Keynes said classical / Ricardian economics discussed distribution of goods given a fixed level of production, the linked article doesn't consider that the maximum productive output on any given day is not the same, even when the 3 variables considered are maximized. "Behavior" here seems to be a boolean, "why we take action or not take action at any given moment", but I think many people who ask how to be more motivated or productive are asking about total output, not just about the ability to begin a task. They might be able to sit down at their desk and start working, for example, but not be able to continue long even after doing all the tricks. In my experience, there is some sort of "mental energy reserve", and as that is exhausted it becomes increasingly difficult or maybe impossible to do any further productive work. If you are doing a strength training workout in the gym, no amount of "motivation" is going to let you continue lifting heavy weight indefinitely. I haven't seen much research to quantify that "mental energy reserve" or quantitatively measure how different tasks exhaust it. There also seems to be some task-related inertia.

joekim 6y ago
Well it is a lot more complicated. There is no "mental energy reserve", but we do get energized by norepinephrine in the brain and once it becomes saturated it it loses its effect. A simple technique to reset it is to activate the "sigh reflex". You just breathe in twice at a normal pace and then slowly exhale through the mouth. Another more powerful reset is to do yoga nidra for 10-20 minutes. Yoga nidra, once you figure it out, will actually deactivate the prefrontal cortex and simulate sleep. Which has a huge boost for your cognitive abilities. Both of these techniques will increase serotonin and dopamine in the brain which will decrease norepinephrine. Once norepinephrine is no longer saturated you can become energized by it again. For example, imagine a football team winning the super bowl. They've been pushing 110%. Suddenly, they're jubilant and jumping all over the place. The dopamine and serotonin pushes out the norepinephrine allowing to return and become effective again.
- epicureanideal 6y ago
  I'll definitely try this, but do you happen to have any links about this? And yes, I realize "mental energy reserve" isn't a scientific term, it's just a term I'm using for lack of something better to label something I experience. Re: the football team though, no matter how energized they are, that team will not be able to lift more than their 1RM (1 rep max), they won't be able to lift their 10RM (10 rep max) more than 10 times (maybe a few more on a good day). Eventually there are physical limits to their ability. Similarly if that team had not slept for 48 hours, or had done non-stop math problems for 18 hours and was asked to continue doing them.
  - joekim 6y ago
    > Re: the football team though, no matter how energized they are, that team will not be able to lift more than their 1RM (1 rep max), they won't be able to lift their 10RM (10 rep max) more than 10 times (maybe a few more on a good day). Eventually there are physical limits to their ability. Similarly if that team had not slept for 48 hours, or had done non-stop math problems for 18 hours and was asked to continue doing them. I want to challenge your thought experiment. Consider Navy Seal training. Pushing through via sheer force of will isn't possible. There needs to be a cycling and restorative process that enables above and beyond grit. Clip of Prof Huberman on "quitting behavior" such as quitting a long bout of work. (Note: Noradrenaline is norepinephrine. It's a weird historical thing where two teams discovered it and nobody agreed on the real name) https://podclips.com/ct/y4Ucji https://podclips.com/ct/y4Ucji Good Joe Rogan with Huberman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLJowTOkZVo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLJowTOkZVo
    - epicureanideal 6y ago
      "Pushing through via sheer force of will isn't possible." That's exactly what I'm saying. I'll check out the link.
      - joekim 6y ago
        > "Pushing through via sheer force of will isn't possible." > That's exactly what I'm saying. I'll check out the link. What I'm saying is that you can't push your way through Navy Seal training by trying harder. But you can significantly increase your output and down regulate the process around "quitting" by using other techniques that will trigger the norepinephrine reset.
- _tom_ 6y ago
  While "mental energy reserve" is not a standard term, "decision fatigue" is, and is basically the same idea.
  - infogulch 6y ago
    Eh, "mental energy reserve" seems to be used like "ego depletion" which doesn't have a great pedigree iirc.
    - joekim 6y ago
      Studies by Dweck, famous for Growth Mindset, and others point to "ego depletion" simply being a reflection of people's beliefs (My willpower is limited) as opposed to an actual resource that gets depleted. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/46579000_Ego_Depletion-Is_It_All_in_Your_Head_Implicit_Theories_About_Willpower_Affect_Self-Regulation https://www.researchgate.net/publication/46579000_Ego_Deplet... https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/01/29/another-blow-for-ego-depletion-theory-willpower-seems-to-replenish-over-time/ https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/01/29/another-blow-for-ego-de...
  - epicureanideal 6y ago
    Yes, I mean it in a similar way to the idea of "decision fatigue", but more broadly about all kinds of cognitive tasks.
altvali 6y ago
I remember reading a study about the mental energy reserve that you speak of, or concentration, proving we have a limited amount, but the people who were informed of this fact were giving up sooner than those who didn't.

joekim 6y ago

Well it is a lot more complicated. There is no "mental energy reserve", but we do get energized by norepinephrine in the brain and once it becomes saturated it it loses its effect. A simple technique to reset it is to activate the "sigh reflex". You just breathe in twice at a normal pace and then slowly exhale through the mouth. Another more powerful reset is to do yoga nidra for 10-20 minutes. Yoga nidra, once you figure it out, will actually deactivate the prefrontal cortex and simulate sleep. Which has a huge boost for your cognitive abilities. Both of these techniques will increase serotonin and dopamine in the brain which will decrease norepinephrine. Once norepinephrine is no longer saturated you can become energized by it again. For example, imagine a football team winning the super bowl. They've been pushing 110%. Suddenly, they're jubilant and jumping all over the place. The dopamine and serotonin pushes out the norepinephrine allowing to return and become effective again.

epicureanideal 6y ago
I'll definitely try this, but do you happen to have any links about this? And yes, I realize "mental energy reserve" isn't a scientific term, it's just a term I'm using for lack of something better to label something I experience. Re: the football team though, no matter how energized they are, that team will not be able to lift more than their 1RM (1 rep max), they won't be able to lift their 10RM (10 rep max) more than 10 times (maybe a few more on a good day). Eventually there are physical limits to their ability. Similarly if that team had not slept for 48 hours, or had done non-stop math problems for 18 hours and was asked to continue doing them.
- joekim 6y ago
  > Re: the football team though, no matter how energized they are, that team will not be able to lift more than their 1RM (1 rep max), they won't be able to lift their 10RM (10 rep max) more than 10 times (maybe a few more on a good day). Eventually there are physical limits to their ability. Similarly if that team had not slept for 48 hours, or had done non-stop math problems for 18 hours and was asked to continue doing them. I want to challenge your thought experiment. Consider Navy Seal training. Pushing through via sheer force of will isn't possible. There needs to be a cycling and restorative process that enables above and beyond grit. Clip of Prof Huberman on "quitting behavior" such as quitting a long bout of work. (Note: Noradrenaline is norepinephrine. It's a weird historical thing where two teams discovered it and nobody agreed on the real name) https://podclips.com/ct/y4Ucji https://podclips.com/ct/y4Ucji Good Joe Rogan with Huberman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLJowTOkZVo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLJowTOkZVo
  - epicureanideal 6y ago
    "Pushing through via sheer force of will isn't possible." That's exactly what I'm saying. I'll check out the link.
    - joekim 6y ago
      > "Pushing through via sheer force of will isn't possible." > That's exactly what I'm saying. I'll check out the link. What I'm saying is that you can't push your way through Navy Seal training by trying harder. But you can significantly increase your output and down regulate the process around "quitting" by using other techniques that will trigger the norepinephrine reset.
_tom_ 6y ago
While "mental energy reserve" is not a standard term, "decision fatigue" is, and is basically the same idea.
- infogulch 6y ago
  Eh, "mental energy reserve" seems to be used like "ego depletion" which doesn't have a great pedigree iirc.
  - joekim 6y ago
    Studies by Dweck, famous for Growth Mindset, and others point to "ego depletion" simply being a reflection of people's beliefs (My willpower is limited) as opposed to an actual resource that gets depleted. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/46579000_Ego_Depletion-Is_It_All_in_Your_Head_Implicit_Theories_About_Willpower_Affect_Self-Regulation https://www.researchgate.net/publication/46579000_Ego_Deplet... https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/01/29/another-blow-for-ego-depletion-theory-willpower-seems-to-replenish-over-time/ https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/01/29/another-blow-for-ego-de...
- epicureanideal 6y ago
  Yes, I mean it in a similar way to the idea of "decision fatigue", but more broadly about all kinds of cognitive tasks.

altvali 6y ago

I remember reading a study about the mental energy reserve that you speak of, or concentration, proving we have a limited amount, but the people who were informed of this fact were giving up sooner than those who didn't.