6 ms·

> The main reason for the TSA to outsource the questioning of travelers and scoring of answers is to evade the rules applicable to collection and use of persona

by mLuby 6y ago

> The main reason for the TSA to outsource the questioning of travelers and scoring of answers is to evade the rules applicable to collection and use of personal data by Federal agencies. … The nominal “fly/no-fly” decision will still be made by the TSA, not the contractor. But that “decision” will be a rubber-stamp approval or disapproval based solely on whether the app shows a “pass” or “fail” score, or whether the would-be traveler doesn’t have a suitable smartphone or is otherwise unable or unwilling to complete the app-based process. You hear the drug trade is really lucrative but you're not allowed to sell drugs, so you send your money to a contractor that sells drugs, they give you more money back, and you technically haven't "sold drugs." Somehow, thinking breaks down at the boundary between systems, because inexplicably the constraints or guarantees of the consuming system do not propagate to the providing system. TSA could and should be (made) identity-agnostic, with its mandate to protect vehicles and occupants. Immigration is what should care about the individual that's being allowed into the country.

A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
Not always. For things that matter, government is perfectly capable of instituting harsh penalties for trying to game the system and boundaries between systems ( check sanctions and OFAC regulations with their strict liability; no messing around, the end result is what matters ). I am certainly not suggesting they should do it the same in TSA, but it is more of an indication that flying is not an issue here.
closeparen 6y ago
Bureaucratic policies do not specify what is ethically or legally permissible, they specify how an organization has decided to do things. Contracting with an outside organization whose policies are more suited to the task at hand is usually easier than refactoring the bureaucracy you live in.
rsync 6y ago
"You hear the drug trade is really lucrative but you're not allowed to sell drugs, so you send your money to a contractor that sells drugs, they give you more money back, and you technically haven't "sold drugs."" I believe you have just described "banking".
- TuringNYC 6y ago
  I assumed he was describing the infamous "Iran Contra Affair" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair Also see: John Poindexter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Poindexter#Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Poindexter#Iran%E2%80%93C...
  - pjc50 6y ago
    Funny how these things turn out; convicted arms trafficer Oliver North ended up running the NRA for a while, before he was pushed out by the current head, Wayne LaPierre, who is currently under investigation by the NY AG for stealing organisational funds.
    - mikeyouse 6y ago
      And notorious ghoul Elliot Abrams, who lied to congress about the involvement of the US Government trafficking weapons in Iran and Nicaragua during the Contra affair was just made United States Special Representative for Iran by Trump. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Abrams https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Abrams Of course they were all pardoned by Bush right before he left office to complete the coverup per the advice of Bush's corrupt Attorney General, William Barr. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Barr#Iran-Contra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Barr#Iran-Contra They're like despotic little cats with how many political lives they have. We really need to start prosecuting corruption at this level if only to keep these criminals out of office in the future.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - bbarnett 6y ago
      Olli for Prez!
    - anonunivgrad 6y ago
      The same NY AG who ran for office on a platform of investigating the NRA for nakedly political reasons (ie. because of their political influence and stance on gun rights). Do you really give that investigation credence?
shard 6y ago
You just had your servers hacked into and all your database are belong to them. The black hats demand X number of BitCoins as ransom, but you cannot pay because it violates certain laws. So you hire an intermediary who pays for you, thereby avoiding the legal problem. https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/4/21353842/garmin-ransomware-attack-wearables-wastedlocker-evil-corp https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/4/21353842/garmin-ransomware...
- dmix 6y ago
  Strange, this is kinda what Huawei is being accused of in Iran. They used a proxy company to do business with a sanctioned country. Although Huawei seemed to directly control the company management, whereas Arete IR is technically an independent company hired as a contractor. Still it's a pretty weak loophole bypass.
  - blaser-waffle 6y ago
    Super common for everything happening with Iran/Sudan/N. Korea. Shell companies inside of shell companies. Demands & markets don't stop just cuz of sanctions...
- p1necone 6y ago
  This also seems like it pretty unambiguously still breaks the law. Has it been tested in court yet? I wonder if it's kind of a "it's small fry, and these businesses are getting their data back, we'll turn our backs to it unless it's actual violent terrorists receiving ransom money" sort of thing.
  - mjevans 6y ago
    Haven't touched it at all, but I strongly suspect that the hired corporation is treated like a blackbox. Middleman: OK, hand us the encrypted data and 125% of whatever the ransomeware is asking. Middleman: Outcome A: Here's your data back. Outcome B: We were unable to get your data back, here's your full refund.
Muromec 6y ago
> Immigration is what should care about the individual that's being allowed into the country. Isn’t it about flying domestic routes? (Asking from Europe)
dillondoyle 6y ago
A lot of street dealers kind of do this because of cash possession laws etc. One guy takes the money, signals, another gives the drugs
davchana 6y ago
You can't sell weed because its illegal, but for money, you can use your "psychic" powers to find "their" long lost weed. I swear I read it in r/stupidloopholes few days ago.
- tomcatfish 6y ago
  https://www.incredibles.me/your-first-order-what-you-need-to-know-faq-faq/ https://www.incredibles.me/your-first-order-what-you-need-to... > So under your scenario you are in Maine vacationing, living, etc… and you lost your weed. OH NO! Who do you call? The INCREDIBLES.ME Psychic Service! We have Psychics roaming all over Portland communicating with their deity, their spirit guides, and having religious moments of clarity. We can guarantee to find your LOST WEED!! (For a small, but very worth while fee!). > Just login to this site, and select the cannabis or cannabis products you lost, and give us your address. We will find YOUR weed and get it back to you ASAP. Fees vary based on the time it takes us to find your weed, the quantity of weed we have to locate, and the distance in which we have to travel to get YOUR LOST weed back to you. ... > If you are under 21 or near a school maybe it is best that you lost your weed.

by mLuby 6y ago

A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago

Not always. For things that matter, government is perfectly capable of instituting harsh penalties for trying to game the system and boundaries between systems ( check sanctions and OFAC regulations with their strict liability; no messing around, the end result is what matters ). I am certainly not suggesting they should do it the same in TSA, but it is more of an indication that flying is not an issue here.

closeparen 6y ago

Bureaucratic policies do not specify what is ethically or legally permissible, they specify how an organization has decided to do things. Contracting with an outside organization whose policies are more suited to the task at hand is usually easier than refactoring the bureaucracy you live in.

rsync 6y ago

"You hear the drug trade is really lucrative but you're not allowed to sell drugs, so you send your money to a contractor that sells drugs, they give you more money back, and you technically haven't "sold drugs."" I believe you have just described "banking".

TuringNYC 6y ago
I assumed he was describing the infamous "Iran Contra Affair" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair Also see: John Poindexter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Poindexter#Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Poindexter#Iran%E2%80%93C...
- pjc50 6y ago
  Funny how these things turn out; convicted arms trafficer Oliver North ended up running the NRA for a while, before he was pushed out by the current head, Wayne LaPierre, who is currently under investigation by the NY AG for stealing organisational funds.
  - mikeyouse 6y ago
    And notorious ghoul Elliot Abrams, who lied to congress about the involvement of the US Government trafficking weapons in Iran and Nicaragua during the Contra affair was just made United States Special Representative for Iran by Trump. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Abrams https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Abrams Of course they were all pardoned by Bush right before he left office to complete the coverup per the advice of Bush's corrupt Attorney General, William Barr. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Barr#Iran-Contra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Barr#Iran-Contra They're like despotic little cats with how many political lives they have. We really need to start prosecuting corruption at this level if only to keep these criminals out of office in the future.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - bbarnett 6y ago
    Olli for Prez!
  - anonunivgrad 6y ago
    The same NY AG who ran for office on a platform of investigating the NRA for nakedly political reasons (ie. because of their political influence and stance on gun rights). Do you really give that investigation credence?

shard 6y ago

You just had your servers hacked into and all your database are belong to them. The black hats demand X number of BitCoins as ransom, but you cannot pay because it violates certain laws. So you hire an intermediary who pays for you, thereby avoiding the legal problem. https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/4/21353842/garmin-ransomware-attack-wearables-wastedlocker-evil-corp https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/4/21353842/garmin-ransomware...

dmix 6y ago
Strange, this is kinda what Huawei is being accused of in Iran. They used a proxy company to do business with a sanctioned country. Although Huawei seemed to directly control the company management, whereas Arete IR is technically an independent company hired as a contractor. Still it's a pretty weak loophole bypass.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  Super common for everything happening with Iran/Sudan/N. Korea. Shell companies inside of shell companies. Demands & markets don't stop just cuz of sanctions...
p1necone 6y ago
This also seems like it pretty unambiguously still breaks the law. Has it been tested in court yet? I wonder if it's kind of a "it's small fry, and these businesses are getting their data back, we'll turn our backs to it unless it's actual violent terrorists receiving ransom money" sort of thing.
- mjevans 6y ago
  Haven't touched it at all, but I strongly suspect that the hired corporation is treated like a blackbox. Middleman: OK, hand us the encrypted data and 125% of whatever the ransomeware is asking. Middleman: Outcome A: Here's your data back. Outcome B: We were unable to get your data back, here's your full refund.

Muromec 6y ago

> Immigration is what should care about the individual that's being allowed into the country. Isn’t it about flying domestic routes? (Asking from Europe)

dillondoyle 6y ago

A lot of street dealers kind of do this because of cash possession laws etc. One guy takes the money, signals, another gives the drugs

davchana 6y ago

You can't sell weed because its illegal, but for money, you can use your "psychic" powers to find "their" long lost weed. I swear I read it in r/stupidloopholes few days ago.

tomcatfish 6y ago
https://www.incredibles.me/your-first-order-what-you-need-to-know-faq-faq/ https://www.incredibles.me/your-first-order-what-you-need-to... > So under your scenario you are in Maine vacationing, living, etc… and you lost your weed. OH NO! Who do you call? The INCREDIBLES.ME Psychic Service! We have Psychics roaming all over Portland communicating with their deity, their spirit guides, and having religious moments of clarity. We can guarantee to find your LOST WEED!! (For a small, but very worth while fee!). > Just login to this site, and select the cannabis or cannabis products you lost, and give us your address. We will find YOUR weed and get it back to you ASAP. Fees vary based on the time it takes us to find your weed, the quantity of weed we have to locate, and the distance in which we have to travel to get YOUR LOST weed back to you. ... > If you are under 21 or near a school maybe it is best that you lost your weed.