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I generally disagree with these kinds of models. Not because motivation, triggers, etc. aren't real things, but because they couch the problem as being either o

I generally disagree with these kinds of models. Not because motivation, triggers, etc. aren't real things, but because they couch the problem as being either outside of us, or quasi-genetic (ADHD, etc.), instead of a choice that we make and own. Taking action has varying degrees of difficulty for every person. The factors are numerous. But in history, in life, in every scenario I've ever read or studied or watched, there's only one factor that matters: regardless of conditions, health, limitations, weather, whatever--the person made a decision and took action, over and over. In my experience, it's as boring as that. No mental hack, no shortcut--decision and action. Sure, you can work on 'clearing obstacles' to getting things done--mental models, physical problems, whatever--but you don't wait for this to be 'solved'. You have to act. And do it again until you're done.

Funes- 6y ago
I agree. What anyone needs to keep procrastination at bay is strong enough resolve. It's the only thing that's ever helped me take action.
- CraigJPerry 6y ago
  Do you never find yourself doing things that after you’ve done it, you realise you shouldn’t have? I find procrastination is sometimes a sign that my subconscious has realised i’d be better delegating or rejecting something rather than doing it BUT my consciousness hasn’t realised that yet. Resolve is my last choice for things i’m procrastinating. It comes after questions like: maybe i really do want to do this and i just haven’t considered why
  - vitabenes 6y ago
    We often say to our clients that procrastination is a teacher, an indicator. What does it indicate? Could be: * you don't like a type of work * you don't have sufficient skills to match the task * it's not important enough for you * you don't believe you can do it ... We teach them to ask themselves: why am I procrastinating? Resolve often isn't the issue.
    - Funes- 6y ago
      You left one of the more obvious reasons, in my opinion: you are avoiding responsibilities and hard work because it's easier and safer--in the short term--to fuck around and slack off all day.
      - vitabenes 6y ago
        That wasn't an all-inclusive list, but you're right, that's a big reason.
        Funes- 6y ago
        No problem. I was writing from my own experience, as well, so that's the first reason I immediately thought of.
DecayingOrganic 6y ago
It's but an apparent fact that we do not have full control over our actions. Just think of the popular game Sims, how you can control your sim to do whatever you want it to do. Now compare that to your own experiences of attempting to control hunks of flesh on disintegrating bones. Thus any simplification in the form of "just do it, it's your choice" motto fails to account for these very real biological constraints.
- stakkur 6y ago
  I disagree, and that's a common reply. Making decisions and taking action are not the same as 'attempting to control' anything. And the idea here is obviously not 'limitations are not real', the idea is 'you make the decision you can and you take the best action you can'. Example: you want to run a mile, but you have a foot deformity that makes it extremely difficult. That's fine. Decide to stand up. Now, decide to walk around the block. Can't do that? That's fine. Decide to stand up. Now, walk to the curb and back. Do it three times a day. Can't do that? That's fine. Stand up. Repeat. Do you understand? Fundamentally, you will always have the ability to choose, even if that's no more than choosing how to respond to the limits you're under. You always have the ability to take action, even if that's no more than how you think.
  - DecayingOrganic 6y ago
    You literally explained Fogg Behavior Model with your example. Yet, you stated in your original comment that you do not "generally" agree with these models. Have you even read about FBM before disagreeing with it?
RobertoG 6y ago
"[..] the person made a decision and took action" Is not that a very low information content theory? I mean, is not all this discussion about why somebody would choose not to take an action that it's beneficial for them if they know it is beneficial? That's the real question. It's like this people that say that everybody can choose to be a millionaire. OK, but in that case, why so many people choose not to be a millionaire? Or why millionaires don't choose to be billionaires? It seems to me that to answer "because they choose" is just wasting ink and explain nothing.
WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
>the person made a decision and took action, over and over. This is the precursor to successes. It's also the precursor to failures. In my experience, considering success factors in a vacuum leads to skewed conclusions. There's an assumption that "meaningful rewards can be reliably expected to follow worthwhile efforts". That isn't universally true at all. You could append "in cases where efforts aren't negated by uncontrollable forces" to make it truthier. To be helpful to more than a minority, advice-givers ought to be able to answer: "X has been done as prescribed, above and beyond even. Y isn't happening. Now what?"
lucasmullens 6y ago
So your solution to procrastination is to just take action? I've got ADHD, and sometimes I feel like telling ADHD people to "just do it" is like telling a depressed person to "just be happy". It might work great for you, but for many that just doesn't work. I get your point, and sometimes I can psych myself up enough to do something with the "just do it" mentality, but sometimes that doesn't work, and articles like this can help me understand why and how to fix it.
- georgespencer 6y ago
  > I feel like telling ADHD people to "just do it" is like telling a depressed person to "just be happy" That is literally what it is like. You are asking someone with a neurodevelopmental disorder which results in disregulation of various brain functions to behave like a person WITHOUT a neurodevelopmental disorder which results in disregulation of various brain functions. The person literally cannot.

Funes- 6y ago

I agree. What anyone needs to keep procrastination at bay is strong enough resolve. It's the only thing that's ever helped me take action.

CraigJPerry 6y ago
Do you never find yourself doing things that after you’ve done it, you realise you shouldn’t have? I find procrastination is sometimes a sign that my subconscious has realised i’d be better delegating or rejecting something rather than doing it BUT my consciousness hasn’t realised that yet. Resolve is my last choice for things i’m procrastinating. It comes after questions like: maybe i really do want to do this and i just haven’t considered why
- vitabenes 6y ago
  We often say to our clients that procrastination is a teacher, an indicator. What does it indicate? Could be: * you don't like a type of work * you don't have sufficient skills to match the task * it's not important enough for you * you don't believe you can do it ... We teach them to ask themselves: why am I procrastinating? Resolve often isn't the issue.
  - Funes- 6y ago
    You left one of the more obvious reasons, in my opinion: you are avoiding responsibilities and hard work because it's easier and safer--in the short term--to fuck around and slack off all day.
    - vitabenes 6y ago
      That wasn't an all-inclusive list, but you're right, that's a big reason.
      - Funes- 6y ago
        No problem. I was writing from my own experience, as well, so that's the first reason I immediately thought of.

DecayingOrganic 6y ago

It's but an apparent fact that we do not have full control over our actions. Just think of the popular game Sims, how you can control your sim to do whatever you want it to do. Now compare that to your own experiences of attempting to control hunks of flesh on disintegrating bones. Thus any simplification in the form of "just do it, it's your choice" motto fails to account for these very real biological constraints.

stakkur 6y ago
I disagree, and that's a common reply. Making decisions and taking action are not the same as 'attempting to control' anything. And the idea here is obviously not 'limitations are not real', the idea is 'you make the decision you can and you take the best action you can'. Example: you want to run a mile, but you have a foot deformity that makes it extremely difficult. That's fine. Decide to stand up. Now, decide to walk around the block. Can't do that? That's fine. Decide to stand up. Now, walk to the curb and back. Do it three times a day. Can't do that? That's fine. Stand up. Repeat. Do you understand? Fundamentally, you will always have the ability to choose, even if that's no more than choosing how to respond to the limits you're under. You always have the ability to take action, even if that's no more than how you think.
- DecayingOrganic 6y ago
  You literally explained Fogg Behavior Model with your example. Yet, you stated in your original comment that you do not "generally" agree with these models. Have you even read about FBM before disagreeing with it?

RobertoG 6y ago

"[..] the person made a decision and took action" Is not that a very low information content theory? I mean, is not all this discussion about why somebody would choose not to take an action that it's beneficial for them if they know it is beneficial? That's the real question. It's like this people that say that everybody can choose to be a millionaire. OK, but in that case, why so many people choose not to be a millionaire? Or why millionaires don't choose to be billionaires? It seems to me that to answer "because they choose" is just wasting ink and explain nothing.

WarOnPrivacy 6y ago

>the person made a decision and took action, over and over. This is the precursor to successes. It's also the precursor to failures. In my experience, considering success factors in a vacuum leads to skewed conclusions. There's an assumption that "meaningful rewards can be reliably expected to follow worthwhile efforts". That isn't universally true at all. You could append "in cases where efforts aren't negated by uncontrollable forces" to make it truthier. To be helpful to more than a minority, advice-givers ought to be able to answer: "X has been done as prescribed, above and beyond even. Y isn't happening. Now what?"

lucasmullens 6y ago

So your solution to procrastination is to just take action? I've got ADHD, and sometimes I feel like telling ADHD people to "just do it" is like telling a depressed person to "just be happy". It might work great for you, but for many that just doesn't work. I get your point, and sometimes I can psych myself up enough to do something with the "just do it" mentality, but sometimes that doesn't work, and articles like this can help me understand why and how to fix it.

georgespencer 6y ago
> I feel like telling ADHD people to "just do it" is like telling a depressed person to "just be happy" That is literally what it is like. You are asking someone with a neurodevelopmental disorder which results in disregulation of various brain functions to behave like a person WITHOUT a neurodevelopmental disorder which results in disregulation of various brain functions. The person literally cannot.