6 ms·

> Is exactly what they should stay away from. Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. This is short term thinking. A slightly better Firefox tomorro

by DCKing 6y ago

> Is exactly what they should stay away from. Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. This is short term thinking. A slightly better Firefox tomorrow is nice I guess, buy I care way more about being able to use Firefox in 2030, or 2040. Making a browser is not looking like a business model that is going to make you last forever - not when Google is your competition. Their business model already depends on them being financed by other tech companies which are the epitomes of the ad tech industry. Their market share is shrinking, and the moment Google (and their other sponsors, but mostly Google) think they can get away with it they will cut Mozilla's funding. I very much encourage their branching out if it leads to them being more independent and sustainable as a company. Moreover, I think [1] the idea of Firefox providing basic internet services is a really good idea. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23566732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23566732

Blake_Emigro 6y ago
The only 10X browser improvement that can be made these days is if it cuts RAM use by 1/2 compared to the others, (and isn't tied to crypto). I would pay for this!
- xxs 6y ago
  >RAM use by 1/2 compared to the others That's javascript mostly. Hard to optimize it away.
barrkel 6y ago
As soon as their revenue isn't dependent on Firefox, why would they continue to develop it? If they found a different cash cow with their wild bets, why would they cross-subsidize Firefox with it? Not focusing on Firefox makes Firefox less likely to thrive, no matter which way you look at it. It's quite hard to turn that kind of ship around, though, psychologically, when you've been fighting rearguard for so long, and mentally are in a place of prestige while the halo of lights imperceptibly fades. Mozilla's shadow is its own worst enemy.
discardable_dan 6y ago
There is a large gap between "focus on the browser" and "make Firefox slightly better." People forget that Firefox gave the world tabbed browsing. Sure, it was around before, but Firefox was the drive and impetus that moved it from a niche idea to the default option across every browser. That was over a decade ago. Firefox has the opportunity to execute a vision of modern web-browsing again. And, frankly, we really need it. Tabs use to be the solution; now I measure problem difficulty in terms of tabs I have open ("That was a 10-tab problem"), and find myself closing 15-20 at a time. Arguably, Pocket is trying to do that, but as a secondary service. It needs to be integrated, and seamless. I want stacks of tabs, tagged tab groups, an Inbox-like interface for my web history, including reminders (rip Inbox Reminders), predictive new-tab screens, cross-device tab sharing. I want to collect and link sites I've seen, and quickly be able to find them again. I want internet history that's a set, not a random list. Firefox could bring us the next wave of web browsing again. Instead, they're building an app that claims to make web browsing better---by going to a second location.
- lazyjeff 6y ago
  I seem to remember that Opera was the first stand-alone browser that brought the world tabbed browsing. People switched to Opera for that and its fast performance. Other browsers including Mozilla copied the feature to catch up. Opera was the source of browser interface innovation and I wish we could replicate that process. They also invented popup blocking, speed dial (the default blank tab UI now on every browser), actual page zoom (before it was just font size increasing/decreasing), and a bunch of things that failed a like mouse gestures and built-in torrent/feedreader. One big thing Opera didn't invent was the use of the address bar for more than URLs, so you could search and autocomplete on it. I think some combination of Chrome+Firefox iterated on that concept.
  - spanhandler 6y ago
    You're right. Phoneix/Firebird were basically a clone of the obviously-best-to-copy Opera features but without the ad bar, with a more native-feeling UI, and maybe (IIRC?) even lighter and faster to launch. Built-in popup blocking, very lightweight and snappy, tabs, free, no ad bar. Those were the selling points, and aside from the last two and slightly odd-feeling UI widgets, Opera had them already. We lost "lightweight and snappy" way back in FF 2.0, and every browser blocks pop-ups now. Today's equivalent would be making ad blocking built-in and on by default, which it isn't. The advertising and constant "we updated!" tabs opening up (yeah, great, I don't give a shit, stop telling me) are at least as annoying as Opera's adbar was, IMO. Hopefully we get a spin-off browser eventually that gets back to FF's roots, and then eventually eats it, like FF did Mozilla Browser.

by DCKing 6y ago

Blake_Emigro 6y ago

The only 10X browser improvement that can be made these days is if it cuts RAM use by 1/2 compared to the others, (and isn't tied to crypto). I would pay for this!

xxs 6y ago
>RAM use by 1/2 compared to the others That's javascript mostly. Hard to optimize it away.

barrkel 6y ago

As soon as their revenue isn't dependent on Firefox, why would they continue to develop it? If they found a different cash cow with their wild bets, why would they cross-subsidize Firefox with it? Not focusing on Firefox makes Firefox less likely to thrive, no matter which way you look at it. It's quite hard to turn that kind of ship around, though, psychologically, when you've been fighting rearguard for so long, and mentally are in a place of prestige while the halo of lights imperceptibly fades. Mozilla's shadow is its own worst enemy.

discardable_dan 6y ago

There is a large gap between "focus on the browser" and "make Firefox slightly better." People forget that Firefox gave the world tabbed browsing. Sure, it was around before, but Firefox was the drive and impetus that moved it from a niche idea to the default option across every browser. That was over a decade ago. Firefox has the opportunity to execute a vision of modern web-browsing again. And, frankly, we really need it. Tabs use to be the solution; now I measure problem difficulty in terms of tabs I have open ("That was a 10-tab problem"), and find myself closing 15-20 at a time. Arguably, Pocket is trying to do that, but as a secondary service. It needs to be integrated, and seamless. I want stacks of tabs, tagged tab groups, an Inbox-like interface for my web history, including reminders (rip Inbox Reminders), predictive new-tab screens, cross-device tab sharing. I want to collect and link sites I've seen, and quickly be able to find them again. I want internet history that's a set, not a random list. Firefox could bring us the next wave of web browsing again. Instead, they're building an app that claims to make web browsing better---by going to a second location.

lazyjeff 6y ago
I seem to remember that Opera was the first stand-alone browser that brought the world tabbed browsing. People switched to Opera for that and its fast performance. Other browsers including Mozilla copied the feature to catch up. Opera was the source of browser interface innovation and I wish we could replicate that process. They also invented popup blocking, speed dial (the default blank tab UI now on every browser), actual page zoom (before it was just font size increasing/decreasing), and a bunch of things that failed a like mouse gestures and built-in torrent/feedreader. One big thing Opera didn't invent was the use of the address bar for more than URLs, so you could search and autocomplete on it. I think some combination of Chrome+Firefox iterated on that concept.
- spanhandler 6y ago
  You're right. Phoneix/Firebird were basically a clone of the obviously-best-to-copy Opera features but without the ad bar, with a more native-feeling UI, and maybe (IIRC?) even lighter and faster to launch. Built-in popup blocking, very lightweight and snappy, tabs, free, no ad bar. Those were the selling points, and aside from the last two and slightly odd-feeling UI widgets, Opera had them already. We lost "lightweight and snappy" way back in FF 2.0, and every browser blocks pop-ups now. Today's equivalent would be making ad blocking built-in and on by default, which it isn't. The advertising and constant "we updated!" tabs opening up (yeah, great, I don't give a shit, stop telling me) are at least as annoying as Opera's adbar was, IMO. Hopefully we get a spin-off browser eventually that gets back to FF's roots, and then eventually eats it, like FF did Mozilla Browser.