3 ms·

I can't say if it's in a good or bad way, I guess it would depend on the individual case. I just know it's extremely hard to be true to your stated purpose when

by shock 6y ago

I can't say if it's in a good or bad way, I guess it would depend on the individual case. I just know it's extremely hard to be true to your stated purpose when incentives push you in other directions.

jamienicol 6y ago
Mozilla's stated purpose is our Manifesto - https://www.mozilla.org/en-GB/about/manifesto/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-GB/about/manifesto/
- shock 6y ago
  On the whole that page sounds like corporate speak. Nevertheless you have broken your > Principle 5: Individuals must have the ability to shape the internet and their own experiences on it. That principle is in direct contradiction to Mozilla pushing the recent Firefox update on users, that disabled their addons. This tells me that the whole Manifesto is worthless. How can I trust an entity that has broken one of its core principles?
  - jamienicol 6y ago
    So now we've gone from "mozilla should stop being political" to "mozilla's politics are just corporate speak"
    - shock 6y ago
      Please don't reframe my words. Nowhere did I state that "mozilla's politics are just corporate speak". I don't know enough about Mozilla's politics, to make that statement. What I did was to point out what reading that page felt to me, and to point out that Principle 5 has been recently broken by Mozilla. If you have something to say to that, please do, but don't put words in my mouth.
      - jamienicol 6y ago
        > I don't know enough about Mozilla's politics, to make that statement. And yet you feel qualified to tell us whether we should or shouldn't be political. When pointed out to that we are a fundamentally political organization you shift the goalposts to webextension support (another tick on the HN mozilla bingo card). 250 people lost their job today. Most of whom worked for Mozilla for political reasons, because they believe in the manifesto. But by all means please tell us why our motivations for working here are wrong.
        shock 6y ago
        I did not tell you whether you should or shouldn't be political. I'm asking you a second time, please stop putting words in my mouth.
        jamienicol 6y ago
        You said it's wrong that Mozilla is a political activist group because it "skews incentives". I've put no words in your mouth.
        shock 6y ago
        > I've put no words in your mouth. Yes you have. You have made the implication that I'm asking you to act according to my wishes/opinions. I can hold an opinion without asking you to act according to my wishes/opinions. I hope you can see the difference. I don't know how to express it so it comes across more clearly.
        jamienicol 6y ago
        Quite clearly we are discussing your opinion and I've never claimed you're demanding we act according to your wishes. You are the one putting words in people's mouths.
        liability 6y ago
        The failure to recognize this distinction seems inherently linked to an authoritarian mindset.

by shock 6y ago

jamienicol 6y ago

Mozilla's stated purpose is our Manifesto - https://www.mozilla.org/en-GB/about/manifesto/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-GB/about/manifesto/

shock 6y ago
On the whole that page sounds like corporate speak. Nevertheless you have broken your > Principle 5: Individuals must have the ability to shape the internet and their own experiences on it. That principle is in direct contradiction to Mozilla pushing the recent Firefox update on users, that disabled their addons. This tells me that the whole Manifesto is worthless. How can I trust an entity that has broken one of its core principles?
- jamienicol 6y ago
  So now we've gone from "mozilla should stop being political" to "mozilla's politics are just corporate speak"
  - shock 6y ago
    Please don't reframe my words. Nowhere did I state that "mozilla's politics are just corporate speak". I don't know enough about Mozilla's politics, to make that statement. What I did was to point out what reading that page felt to me, and to point out that Principle 5 has been recently broken by Mozilla. If you have something to say to that, please do, but don't put words in my mouth.
    - jamienicol 6y ago
      > I don't know enough about Mozilla's politics, to make that statement. And yet you feel qualified to tell us whether we should or shouldn't be political. When pointed out to that we are a fundamentally political organization you shift the goalposts to webextension support (another tick on the HN mozilla bingo card). 250 people lost their job today. Most of whom worked for Mozilla for political reasons, because they believe in the manifesto. But by all means please tell us why our motivations for working here are wrong.
      - shock 6y ago
        I did not tell you whether you should or shouldn't be political. I'm asking you a second time, please stop putting words in my mouth.
        jamienicol 6y ago
        You said it's wrong that Mozilla is a political activist group because it "skews incentives". I've put no words in your mouth.
        shock 6y ago
        > I've put no words in your mouth. Yes you have. You have made the implication that I'm asking you to act according to my wishes/opinions. I can hold an opinion without asking you to act according to my wishes/opinions. I hope you can see the difference. I don't know how to express it so it comes across more clearly.
        jamienicol 6y ago
        Quite clearly we are discussing your opinion and I've never claimed you're demanding we act according to your wishes. You are the one putting words in people's mouths.
        liability 6y ago
        The failure to recognize this distinction seems inherently linked to an authoritarian mindset.