3 ms·

You can't know if voting fraud is nearly non-existent because we have very little in the way of enforcement and auditing systems to even know if there was fraud

You can't know if voting fraud is nearly non-existent because we have very little in the way of enforcement and auditing systems to even know if there was fraud. And yet people are still arrested all the time for voter fraud.

heavyset_go 6y ago
Please stop portraying your political opinions as fact. Independent and government research has been done[1][2][3], and courts[1] have found that voting fraud is nearly non-existent in the US. If you want to take issue with the methodologies used to determine that, you're free too, but right now what your post amounts to is denial of scientific evidence. [1] Here are dozens of independent and government studies, and court rulings on voter fraud: https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/Briefing_Memo_Debunking_Voter_Fraud_Myth.pdf https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/B... [2] https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/02/low-rates-of-fraud-in-vote-by-mail-states-show-the-benefits-outweigh-the-risks/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/02/low-rates-o... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/minuscule-number-of-potentially-fraudulent-ballots-in-states-with-universal-mail-voting-undercuts-trump-claims-about-election-risks/2020/06/08/1e78aa26-a5c5-11ea-bb20-ebf0921f3bbd_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/minuscule-number-of-...
- merpnderp 6y ago
  First it is ridiculous to point at studies that say we don't have fraud when we can't know if we have fraud because most votes have no way to audit them. And none of those speak to my point, and the point of many others who study this in detail, is there were over a thousand recorded criminals cases of voter fraud over in recent elections. When you couple that with many elections having no way to audit a vote, then we have a huge problem, because without auditing tools, only the most stupid and egregious incidents of fraud will be caught. If you agree that a fraudulent election would be catastrophic for our democracy, and that we currently have no tools to audit the integrity of our votes (which we can't without voter ID), then voter ID, free or whatever, is an obvious solution. I'm betting Belarus wishes they had a way to audit their elections about now.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    > First it is ridiculous to point at studies that say we don't have fraud when we can't know if we have fraud because most votes have no way to audit them. Again, you insist that the methodology to audit isn't there, yet there are dozens of studies, audits and case law examples that disagree with your opinion. Again, if you want to disagree with the methodology, you are free to, but please be specific about what you disagree with.

heavyset_go 6y ago

Please stop portraying your political opinions as fact. Independent and government research has been done[1][2][3], and courts[1] have found that voting fraud is nearly non-existent in the US. If you want to take issue with the methodologies used to determine that, you're free too, but right now what your post amounts to is denial of scientific evidence. [1] Here are dozens of independent and government studies, and court rulings on voter fraud: https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/Briefing_Memo_Debunking_Voter_Fraud_Myth.pdf https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/B... [2] https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/02/low-rates-of-fraud-in-vote-by-mail-states-show-the-benefits-outweigh-the-risks/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/02/low-rates-o... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/minuscule-number-of-potentially-fraudulent-ballots-in-states-with-universal-mail-voting-undercuts-trump-claims-about-election-risks/2020/06/08/1e78aa26-a5c5-11ea-bb20-ebf0921f3bbd_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/minuscule-number-of-...

merpnderp 6y ago
First it is ridiculous to point at studies that say we don't have fraud when we can't know if we have fraud because most votes have no way to audit them. And none of those speak to my point, and the point of many others who study this in detail, is there were over a thousand recorded criminals cases of voter fraud over in recent elections. When you couple that with many elections having no way to audit a vote, then we have a huge problem, because without auditing tools, only the most stupid and egregious incidents of fraud will be caught. If you agree that a fraudulent election would be catastrophic for our democracy, and that we currently have no tools to audit the integrity of our votes (which we can't without voter ID), then voter ID, free or whatever, is an obvious solution. I'm betting Belarus wishes they had a way to audit their elections about now.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  > First it is ridiculous to point at studies that say we don't have fraud when we can't know if we have fraud because most votes have no way to audit them. Again, you insist that the methodology to audit isn't there, yet there are dozens of studies, audits and case law examples that disagree with your opinion. Again, if you want to disagree with the methodology, you are free to, but please be specific about what you disagree with.