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>... we should treat each other with more dignity... You mean like respecting their decision to engage in gig work despite every other available option? That k

>... we should treat each other with more dignity... You mean like respecting their decision to engage in gig work despite every other available option? That kind of dignity? The whole issue is pretty rich coming from California. If people are struggling the answer is never that the cost of living is too high due to rediculous zoning and environmental regulations, clearly it's the greedy companies that are the problem. The whole living wage issue in California reeks of doing every gymnastic available to avoid political introspection that might lead to admitting a lot of well intentioned things aren't working. Never mind that the state suddenly becomes mute about living wages when discussing its many illegal immigrants who work for /below/ the minimum wage. We apparently don't talk about that because leeching off desperate individuals "is complicated" and something that only companies do. If a large number of workers prefer gig work the problem isn't that they aren't making enough money the problem is that catering to them would undermine all of the previous "benefits" that they obviously don't view as a priority in their current situation. Heaven forbid that we let the actual workers decide how they want to associate.

newsclues 6y ago
Do people do gig work out of choice or necessity? Just because people choose or are forced to do a job doesn’t mean they do not deserve respect
- microcolonel 6y ago
  I don't see the ‘respect’ and ‘dignity’ in being prohibited from taking work because it is aesthetically displeasing to the 1%.
  - eie73hrhdje 6y ago
    I feel like you're disagreeing with me but I'm unclear what we are disagreeing on.
    - microcolonel 6y ago
      You are mistaken, I'm not even replying to you.
      - eie73hrhdje 6y ago
        I was indeed mistaken, I see that now.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  The medium is probably just coincidence, but I found the "what do you want to be when you grow up" onesie an excellent meta-comment on class mobility: https://www.teepublic.com/onesie/328209-what-do-you-want-to-be-when-you-grow-up https://www.teepublic.com/onesie/328209-what-do-you-want-to-...
- samtheprogram 6y ago
  If it’s out of necessity, it’s often because it’s their second job to some other job that _actually has a schedule_ but doesn’t schedule them full time to avoid giving them the typical benefits of full time workers. Or at least that’s what I’m hearing from business owners and part time workers... right? I tend to think a work-as-you-want service like Uber or Lyft that pay above minimum wage couldn’t be more fitting to a self-employed / contractor description.
- eie73hrhdje 6y ago
  I had a long rambling reply to this that in retrospect I think missed the forest for the trees. Put simply, most jobs are worked out of necessity because we don't live in a post scarcity society. It's a very privileged position to have a real choice between interesting jobs that aren't just two terrible competing options. Removing labor options by force weakens the position of low skill workers because it limits how many interests are competing for their attention (labor demand). There is nothing inherently disrespectful about independent contractor work, it's simply another option in a wider pool of choices. What is disrespectful is suggesting that these people are just to dim to see that they're being exploited rather than acknowledging that perhaps the reason they don't care about the benefits of regular work is because a job that fits into their current life situation is more valuable than the other options they looked at.
  - hajile 6y ago
    People pay you for a job because you wouldn't do it for free. This is why so many scientists work for peanuts. This is why most game developers work 60-80 hour weeks for a salary 30+% lower than what they'd make working that boring Java job at corporation X.
TeaDrunk 6y ago
There is labor that is generally understood to be unhealthy to participate in. It’s generally considered unethical to hire children outside of ones own to labor. It’s generally considered unethical to labor in the business of knowingly selling highly addictive drugs, or killing people, or robbing people, or stalking people, or scamming people. Should we also respect and have no guardrails for people who destroy their lives via cults, MLMs, scam artists, addiction, etc?
aiilns 6y ago
I wasn't aware that people working in Uber/Lyft advocate for not being employees? Do you have a source for that? Are people engaging in gig work because it has several advantages over "every other available option"? What other options do people who drive for Lyft/Uber as a day job have? And what are the advantages Uber/Lyft & working as a contractor offer? Maybe zoning effects should be part of a discussion on the cost of living in California, exploitation of immigrants is deplorable and awareness should be raised and actions taken, but does that make Uber/Lyft exploiting workers a non-issue? I'm not from the US and am not aware of the specifics in California, but being from a country which has faced severe economic crises I've seen people "choosing" a shitty option despite every other shitty option. I can't say I understand where you're going with most of what you're saying, or how informed you are of gig workers situation. I saw a pretty good movie by Ken Loach: _Sorry We Missed You_, that thought was really spot on on the issues of gig work: https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorry_We_Missed_You https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorry_We_Missed_You

newsclues 6y ago

Do people do gig work out of choice or necessity? Just because people choose or are forced to do a job doesn’t mean they do not deserve respect

microcolonel 6y ago
I don't see the ‘respect’ and ‘dignity’ in being prohibited from taking work because it is aesthetically displeasing to the 1%.
- eie73hrhdje 6y ago
  I feel like you're disagreeing with me but I'm unclear what we are disagreeing on.
  - microcolonel 6y ago
    You are mistaken, I'm not even replying to you.
    - eie73hrhdje 6y ago
      I was indeed mistaken, I see that now.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
082349872349872 6y ago
The medium is probably just coincidence, but I found the "what do you want to be when you grow up" onesie an excellent meta-comment on class mobility: https://www.teepublic.com/onesie/328209-what-do-you-want-to-be-when-you-grow-up https://www.teepublic.com/onesie/328209-what-do-you-want-to-...
samtheprogram 6y ago
If it’s out of necessity, it’s often because it’s their second job to some other job that _actually has a schedule_ but doesn’t schedule them full time to avoid giving them the typical benefits of full time workers. Or at least that’s what I’m hearing from business owners and part time workers... right? I tend to think a work-as-you-want service like Uber or Lyft that pay above minimum wage couldn’t be more fitting to a self-employed / contractor description.
eie73hrhdje 6y ago
I had a long rambling reply to this that in retrospect I think missed the forest for the trees. Put simply, most jobs are worked out of necessity because we don't live in a post scarcity society. It's a very privileged position to have a real choice between interesting jobs that aren't just two terrible competing options. Removing labor options by force weakens the position of low skill workers because it limits how many interests are competing for their attention (labor demand). There is nothing inherently disrespectful about independent contractor work, it's simply another option in a wider pool of choices. What is disrespectful is suggesting that these people are just to dim to see that they're being exploited rather than acknowledging that perhaps the reason they don't care about the benefits of regular work is because a job that fits into their current life situation is more valuable than the other options they looked at.
- hajile 6y ago
  People pay you for a job because you wouldn't do it for free. This is why so many scientists work for peanuts. This is why most game developers work 60-80 hour weeks for a salary 30+% lower than what they'd make working that boring Java job at corporation X.

TeaDrunk 6y ago

There is labor that is generally understood to be unhealthy to participate in. It’s generally considered unethical to hire children outside of ones own to labor. It’s generally considered unethical to labor in the business of knowingly selling highly addictive drugs, or killing people, or robbing people, or stalking people, or scamming people. Should we also respect and have no guardrails for people who destroy their lives via cults, MLMs, scam artists, addiction, etc?

aiilns 6y ago

I wasn't aware that people working in Uber/Lyft advocate for not being employees? Do you have a source for that? Are people engaging in gig work because it has several advantages over "every other available option"? What other options do people who drive for Lyft/Uber as a day job have? And what are the advantages Uber/Lyft & working as a contractor offer? Maybe zoning effects should be part of a discussion on the cost of living in California, exploitation of immigrants is deplorable and awareness should be raised and actions taken, but does that make Uber/Lyft exploiting workers a non-issue? I'm not from the US and am not aware of the specifics in California, but being from a country which has faced severe economic crises I've seen people "choosing" a shitty option despite every other shitty option. I can't say I understand where you're going with most of what you're saying, or how informed you are of gig workers situation. I saw a pretty good movie by Ken Loach: _Sorry We Missed You_, that thought was really spot on on the issues of gig work: https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorry_We_Missed_You https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorry_We_Missed_You