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I question the validity of the accusations i Xinjiang. If you can provide me evidence of wrongdoing, I will be more than glad to read and investigate it. Chin

I question the validity of the accusations i Xinjiang. If you can provide me evidence of wrongdoing, I will be more than glad to read and investigate it. China is dealing with radical Islamists in the best way they feel they can. I never said that China was "ok", I simply pointed out the hypocrisy that is always present when we demonize a foreign nation, for political ends.

glenstein 6y ago
Amnesty International has interviewed more than 400 people who have reported disappearances and sometimes torture in Xinjiang. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/12/ozils-uyghur-post10-things-you-need-to-know-about-chinas-xinjiang-crisis/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/12/ozils-uyghur-... >I never said that China was "ok", I simply pointed out the hypocrisy that is I'm sure you think this is helpful, but this is a false equivalence that, for practical purposes, serves to derail necessary and needed criticisms of China.
- SenoraRaton 6y ago
  Amnesty international has a troubled history. https://www.mintpressnews.com/amnesty-international-troubling-collaboration-with-uk-us-intelligence/253939/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/amnesty-international-troublin... Luis Kutner was a co-founder of Amnesty international, and Kutner would go on to form the “Friends of the FBI” group, an organization “formed to combat criticism of the Federal Bureau of Investigations,” according to the New York Times, after its covert campaign to disrupt leftists movements — COINTELPRO — was revealed. He also went on to operate in a number of theaters that saw heavy involvement from the CIA — including work Kutner did to undermine Congolese Prime Minister and staunch anti-imperialist Patrice Lumumba — and represented the Dalai Lama, who was provided $1.7 million a year by the CIA in the 1960s. If you want more recent events: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony They were the ones that "corroborated" her testimony. If it weren't so tragic, it would almost be comical, its like they have manufactured consent before, and know what they are doing...
  - glenstein 6y ago
    Oh, I'm very aware of these JV debate team talking points about Amnesty International. I would just dismiss those as not relevant and point you toward some courses on remedial critical thinking skills to better understand what kinds of evidence are relevant to what kinds of claims, specifically how the signal diminishes as you increase the degrees of separation from your evidence and the content you are trying to apply it to. This is several degrees of abstraction away from the point about Uighurs, so unless you are claiming Luis Kutner's actions in the 60s have a specific, direct evidentiary connection to the 400 instances of Uighur testimony about disappearances and torture across the world from the past few years, the only thing I can do for you is try to help explain how to critically think about evidence and its connection to different kinds of claims, and how to understand when it does and doesn't weigh on particular claims. Did you have anything specific to the issue of Uighur testimony you would like to share that's not from 60 years ago? Is there a particular line in the wiki article or mintpressnews that you linked that directly and specifically debunks all 400 pieces of testimony?
    - SenoraRaton 6y ago
      Sure, here is an example of these "testimonies", and how their stories changed: After: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7599941/Whistleblower-escaped-Chinese-education-camp-reveals-horrors.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7599941/Whistleblow... Before: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-everyone-was-silent-endlessly-mute-former-chinese-re-education/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-everyone-was-s... If you looked at the second link I provided about Nayirah and Desert Storm, you would realize that my concerns about Amnesty and testimonies are inextricably linked. They "corroborated" her testimony. Bear in mind this was in the early 90's, not 1960. Watch the testimony, and then read the video description. Its all public record. https://youtu.be/LmfVs3WaE9Y https://youtu.be/LmfVs3WaE9Y The facts of the matter are that there HAVE been radical Islamic terrorist attacks in Xinjiang. The Chinese are dealing with the nature of this problem. The extent to which "atrocities" are occurring is constantly stated, yet somehow the numbers are always inflated, stories are changing, none of it adds up. More sources and references: https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/ehrd6y/cmv_the_current_chinese_government_is_fascist_and/fcl5pb7/ https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/ehrd6y/cmv_th... If you want a REAL deep dive: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d0lynghlCnR6Hs57pypEEhlhHczFVgaYX-TIZD61s_w/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d0lynghlCnR6Hs57pypEEhlh... Here is a video from April of this year in Xinjiang, one of the terrorist attacks is included in the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oKvulTU8oU&bpctr=1597232967 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oKvulTU8oU&bpctr=1597232967

glenstein 6y ago

Amnesty International has interviewed more than 400 people who have reported disappearances and sometimes torture in Xinjiang. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/12/ozils-uyghur-post10-things-you-need-to-know-about-chinas-xinjiang-crisis/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/12/ozils-uyghur-... >I never said that China was "ok", I simply pointed out the hypocrisy that is I'm sure you think this is helpful, but this is a false equivalence that, for practical purposes, serves to derail necessary and needed criticisms of China.

SenoraRaton 6y ago
Amnesty international has a troubled history. https://www.mintpressnews.com/amnesty-international-troubling-collaboration-with-uk-us-intelligence/253939/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/amnesty-international-troublin... Luis Kutner was a co-founder of Amnesty international, and Kutner would go on to form the “Friends of the FBI” group, an organization “formed to combat criticism of the Federal Bureau of Investigations,” according to the New York Times, after its covert campaign to disrupt leftists movements — COINTELPRO — was revealed. He also went on to operate in a number of theaters that saw heavy involvement from the CIA — including work Kutner did to undermine Congolese Prime Minister and staunch anti-imperialist Patrice Lumumba — and represented the Dalai Lama, who was provided $1.7 million a year by the CIA in the 1960s. If you want more recent events: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony They were the ones that "corroborated" her testimony. If it weren't so tragic, it would almost be comical, its like they have manufactured consent before, and know what they are doing...
- glenstein 6y ago
  Oh, I'm very aware of these JV debate team talking points about Amnesty International. I would just dismiss those as not relevant and point you toward some courses on remedial critical thinking skills to better understand what kinds of evidence are relevant to what kinds of claims, specifically how the signal diminishes as you increase the degrees of separation from your evidence and the content you are trying to apply it to. This is several degrees of abstraction away from the point about Uighurs, so unless you are claiming Luis Kutner's actions in the 60s have a specific, direct evidentiary connection to the 400 instances of Uighur testimony about disappearances and torture across the world from the past few years, the only thing I can do for you is try to help explain how to critically think about evidence and its connection to different kinds of claims, and how to understand when it does and doesn't weigh on particular claims. Did you have anything specific to the issue of Uighur testimony you would like to share that's not from 60 years ago? Is there a particular line in the wiki article or mintpressnews that you linked that directly and specifically debunks all 400 pieces of testimony?
  - SenoraRaton 6y ago
    Sure, here is an example of these "testimonies", and how their stories changed: After: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7599941/Whistleblower-escaped-Chinese-education-camp-reveals-horrors.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7599941/Whistleblow... Before: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-everyone-was-silent-endlessly-mute-former-chinese-re-education/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-everyone-was-s... If you looked at the second link I provided about Nayirah and Desert Storm, you would realize that my concerns about Amnesty and testimonies are inextricably linked. They "corroborated" her testimony. Bear in mind this was in the early 90's, not 1960. Watch the testimony, and then read the video description. Its all public record. https://youtu.be/LmfVs3WaE9Y https://youtu.be/LmfVs3WaE9Y The facts of the matter are that there HAVE been radical Islamic terrorist attacks in Xinjiang. The Chinese are dealing with the nature of this problem. The extent to which "atrocities" are occurring is constantly stated, yet somehow the numbers are always inflated, stories are changing, none of it adds up. More sources and references: https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/ehrd6y/cmv_the_current_chinese_government_is_fascist_and/fcl5pb7/ https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/ehrd6y/cmv_th... If you want a REAL deep dive: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d0lynghlCnR6Hs57pypEEhlhHczFVgaYX-TIZD61s_w/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d0lynghlCnR6Hs57pypEEhlh... Here is a video from April of this year in Xinjiang, one of the terrorist attacks is included in the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oKvulTU8oU&bpctr=1597232967 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oKvulTU8oU&bpctr=1597232967