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I'm not sure what you're on about. Authoritarian states do have laws to justify what they do. Even Saudi Arabia has them. You can get a lawyer, you can get a ju

by disgu 6y ago

I'm not sure what you're on about. Authoritarian states do have laws to justify what they do. Even Saudi Arabia has them. You can get a lawyer, you can get a judge to review your case, you can appeal decisions. They do have separation of power as well. Read up about the countless cases in those countries. Enforcing national security laws are very, very often the reason for the most fucked up judgements. All those cases from North Korea? Yep, national security without verifiable proof of how it endangers national security.

arcturus17 6y ago
> Authoritarian states do have laws to justify what they do From my original comment, which you replied to: > There are laws in China, but ultimately a corporation is subject to the whims of the Chinese Communist Party. Either you didn't read that part, chose to omit it, or you are being deliberately rude, questioning "what I'm on about". The difference between those authoritarian regimes and a democracy under the Rule of Law like the US is the degree in which the law can be arbitrarily superseded by an authority, such as a Party or Ruler, breaking the separation of powers. Comparing the legal systems and guarantees of China, North Korea or Saudi Arabia, with those of the US is disingenuous at best. You did not address the fundamental point which is that an Executive Order can be challenged in a Court of Law - it will be, in fact. Do you think a decision by the CCP, Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-Un or Mohammad Bin Salman would be afforded the same level of guarantees?
- disgu 6y ago
  > You did not address the fundamental point which is that an Executive Order can be challenged in a Court of Law - it will be, in fact. > Do you think a decision by the CCP, Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-Un or Mohammad Bin Salman would be afforded the same level of guarantees? Yes, absolutely. It happens all the time. Those rulers use _the laws afforded to them_ to rule. It's completely wrong to suggest that they just do whatever the hell they want. That's just not the case at all. Please look into the topic. Those countries have laws that make it very, very easy for the rulers to justify doing whatever they want. MBS can put you in jail for live not because he's free to do whatever he wants but because the laws are designed in a way that gives him every reason to justify putting anyone in jail - as I mentioned, usually based on national security grounds. Those very same national security reasons that authoritarian regimes constantly use are being used by Trump. So yes, Trump being able to claim something a national security issue without having to provide proof, without giving the accused a chance to take a look at the evidence that supposedly exists against them, without them being able to defend themselves from the accusations, that's exactly what authoritarian regimes do.
  - arcturus17 6y ago
    You are absolutely delusional if you think dictatorships work under strict Rule of Law like democracies. This is basic middle school stuff - ideas that have been developed during centuries by the liberal tradition and even hark back to the Classical world - so I'm not going to bother debating it here. I will however leave some data, from the World Justice Project Rule of Law Index 2020 [1]. These indices measure how strong the Rule of Law is in each country: Germany - 0.84 United Kingdom - 0.79 Japan - 0.78 US - 0.73 France - 0.73 South Korea - 0.73 --- China - 0.48 Russia - 0.47 Turkey - 0.43 There's no data for North Korea or Saudi Arabia, because they're so closed that there's not even a point in trying to judge the quality of their legal system. Go figure. [1] https://worldjusticeproject.org/our-work/publications/rule-law-index-reports/wjp-rule-law-index-2020 https://worldjusticeproject.org/our-work/publications/rule-l...
    - lostmsu 6y ago
      I don't think this matters in the question. In regards with US tech companies banned in China, all of them are banned for violating Chinese laws. If you believe there is a major exception to this, name it.

by disgu 6y ago

arcturus17 6y ago

> Authoritarian states do have laws to justify what they do From my original comment, which you replied to: > There are laws in China, but ultimately a corporation is subject to the whims of the Chinese Communist Party. Either you didn't read that part, chose to omit it, or you are being deliberately rude, questioning "what I'm on about". The difference between those authoritarian regimes and a democracy under the Rule of Law like the US is the degree in which the law can be arbitrarily superseded by an authority, such as a Party or Ruler, breaking the separation of powers. Comparing the legal systems and guarantees of China, North Korea or Saudi Arabia, with those of the US is disingenuous at best. You did not address the fundamental point which is that an Executive Order can be challenged in a Court of Law - it will be, in fact. Do you think a decision by the CCP, Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-Un or Mohammad Bin Salman would be afforded the same level of guarantees?

disgu 6y ago
> You did not address the fundamental point which is that an Executive Order can be challenged in a Court of Law - it will be, in fact. > Do you think a decision by the CCP, Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-Un or Mohammad Bin Salman would be afforded the same level of guarantees? Yes, absolutely. It happens all the time. Those rulers use _the laws afforded to them_ to rule. It's completely wrong to suggest that they just do whatever the hell they want. That's just not the case at all. Please look into the topic. Those countries have laws that make it very, very easy for the rulers to justify doing whatever they want. MBS can put you in jail for live not because he's free to do whatever he wants but because the laws are designed in a way that gives him every reason to justify putting anyone in jail - as I mentioned, usually based on national security grounds. Those very same national security reasons that authoritarian regimes constantly use are being used by Trump. So yes, Trump being able to claim something a national security issue without having to provide proof, without giving the accused a chance to take a look at the evidence that supposedly exists against them, without them being able to defend themselves from the accusations, that's exactly what authoritarian regimes do.
- arcturus17 6y ago
  You are absolutely delusional if you think dictatorships work under strict Rule of Law like democracies. This is basic middle school stuff - ideas that have been developed during centuries by the liberal tradition and even hark back to the Classical world - so I'm not going to bother debating it here. I will however leave some data, from the World Justice Project Rule of Law Index 2020 [1]. These indices measure how strong the Rule of Law is in each country: Germany - 0.84 United Kingdom - 0.79 Japan - 0.78 US - 0.73 France - 0.73 South Korea - 0.73 --- China - 0.48 Russia - 0.47 Turkey - 0.43 There's no data for North Korea or Saudi Arabia, because they're so closed that there's not even a point in trying to judge the quality of their legal system. Go figure. [1] https://worldjusticeproject.org/our-work/publications/rule-law-index-reports/wjp-rule-law-index-2020 https://worldjusticeproject.org/our-work/publications/rule-l...
  - lostmsu 6y ago
    I don't think this matters in the question. In regards with US tech companies banned in China, all of them are banned for violating Chinese laws. If you believe there is a major exception to this, name it.