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Why is congress not involved if it's so important? Should the president really have this power?

qshqwudhoquc 6y ago
> If Congress believes the president has used the emergency economic powers unjustly, lawmakers can overrule the order by passing a resolution that would terminate the order. > But any pushback from Congress is unlikely, as the skepticism about the Chinese Communist Party's potential ties to the country's technology companies has gathered bipartisan support.
- evbpcapfxy 6y ago
  It's not like congress will strike down the order because it's unjustly and then propose some new legislation which bans TikTok, it's good for everyone there to be able to blame Trump even if it has bipartisan backing.
ehsankia 6y ago
> Should the president really have this power? He once again imposed tariffs on Canada using the whole "national security" excuse. It seems like he can do quite a lot using that excuse...
tooltalk 6y ago
Well, the executive branch has a lot of leeway when it comes to anything at the border and beyond : eg, working with other countries such as treaties, international commerce, tariff, or war. Further, Trump's anti-China campaign has broad political support from both parties - Congress voted to ban TikTok in federal devices just days ago.
Slartie 6y ago
> Should the president really have this power? No.
- VBprogrammer 6y ago
  This will be an unpopular opinion no doubt but the question isn't "should the president have this power?" It is actually "should this president have this power?" The answer to the second one is more challenging since he doesn't respect the norms of political restraint.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> Why is congress not involved if it's so important? Congress creates laws. The President enforces them. This is an enforcement action--it's not unusual for Congress to be uninvolved. > Should the president really have this power? Multiple Congresses gave these powers to the President [1][2][3]. The current and next ones are free to take them back. My personal belief is no, the President shouldn't have this power in the absence of clear and present danger. We need a commission, likely under Commerce and/or State, that assesses civil fines and passes prosecution recommendations to the DoJ. Furthermore, we need legislation describing (a) which countries are deemed economically friendly and economically adversarial, (b) how those determinations are made and (c) what companies from those countries can and cannot do as well as (d) how they may achieve "safe harbor" status (e.g. by locally hosting data and submitting code for periodic review). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Emergency_Economic_Powers_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Emergency_Econom... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exon–Florio_Amendment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exon–Florio_Amendment [3] https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/international/Documents/Summary-of-FIRRMA.pdf https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/international/Docum...
- DetroitThrow 6y ago
  Constitution and constitutional precedent also imbues the powers of foreign affairs onto the president unless there's legislation. Jefferson pushed for this to be the case: "The transaction of business with foreign nations is executive altogether. It belongs, then, to the head of that department, except as to such portions of it as are specially submitted to the Senate. Exceptions are to be construed strictly"
- virtue3 6y ago
  IMHO TikTok being owned by the CCP now is a clear and present danger to all Americans using the app. You make some fair points, but there is no way that I would trust a government agency to actually do code reviews and verify that a company isn't doing something wrong. I feel increasingly unsafe because this app is being operated by a company that is beyond extradition with the USA. So if they ARE busted for doing bad stuff, who is getting jailed? In an era where every snapdragon SoC seems rootable from any old application, and you can use machine learning to pick out key words from text streams, do we really need this app in the market?
chrisco255 6y ago
Banning foreign entities with executive orders? Yes, the president should. Also, this country was started by throwing British tea into the Boston harbor so it's really nothing new. Obama confiscated property from Iranians, banned certain transactions with Libya, North Korea, Syria, and others. Probably every president has issued similar EOs at some point or another. Only difference this time is that TikTok is popular. I suppose we never really lamented the loss of Soviet Saturday morning cartoons. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_executive_actions_by_Barack_Obama https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_executive_actions_by...
onetimemanytime 6y ago
Congress has given the President this power, as the article says: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1701 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1701 "(a) Any authority granted to the President by section 1702 of this title may be exercised to deal with any unusual and extraordinary threat, which has its source in whole or substantial part outside the United States, to the national security, foreign policy, or economy of the United States, if the President declares a national emergency with respect to such threat." USA has given its President a lot more power over the years and decades.

> If Congress believes the president has used the emergency economic powers unjustly, lawmakers can overrule the order by passing a resolution that would terminate the order. > But any pushback from Congress is unlikely, as the skepticism about the Chinese Communist Party's potential ties to the country's technology companies has gathered bipartisan support.

evbpcapfxy 6y ago
It's not like congress will strike down the order because it's unjustly and then propose some new legislation which bans TikTok, it's good for everyone there to be able to blame Trump even if it has bipartisan backing.

ehsankia 6y ago

> Should the president really have this power? He once again imposed tariffs on Canada using the whole "national security" excuse. It seems like he can do quite a lot using that excuse...

tooltalk 6y ago

Well, the executive branch has a lot of leeway when it comes to anything at the border and beyond : eg, working with other countries such as treaties, international commerce, tariff, or war. Further, Trump's anti-China campaign has broad political support from both parties - Congress voted to ban TikTok in federal devices just days ago.

Slartie 6y ago

> Should the president really have this power? No.

VBprogrammer 6y ago
This will be an unpopular opinion no doubt but the question isn't "should the president have this power?" It is actually "should this president have this power?" The answer to the second one is more challenging since he doesn't respect the norms of political restraint.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> Why is congress not involved if it's so important? Congress creates laws. The President enforces them. This is an enforcement action--it's not unusual for Congress to be uninvolved. > Should the president really have this power? Multiple Congresses gave these powers to the President [1][2][3]. The current and next ones are free to take them back. My personal belief is no, the President shouldn't have this power in the absence of clear and present danger. We need a commission, likely under Commerce and/or State, that assesses civil fines and passes prosecution recommendations to the DoJ. Furthermore, we need legislation describing (a) which countries are deemed economically friendly and economically adversarial, (b) how those determinations are made and (c) what companies from those countries can and cannot do as well as (d) how they may achieve "safe harbor" status (e.g. by locally hosting data and submitting code for periodic review). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Emergency_Economic_Powers_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Emergency_Econom... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exon–Florio_Amendment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exon–Florio_Amendment [3] https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/international/Documents/Summary-of-FIRRMA.pdf https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/international/Docum...

DetroitThrow 6y ago
Constitution and constitutional precedent also imbues the powers of foreign affairs onto the president unless there's legislation. Jefferson pushed for this to be the case: "The transaction of business with foreign nations is executive altogether. It belongs, then, to the head of that department, except as to such portions of it as are specially submitted to the Senate. Exceptions are to be construed strictly"
virtue3 6y ago
IMHO TikTok being owned by the CCP now is a clear and present danger to all Americans using the app. You make some fair points, but there is no way that I would trust a government agency to actually do code reviews and verify that a company isn't doing something wrong. I feel increasingly unsafe because this app is being operated by a company that is beyond extradition with the USA. So if they ARE busted for doing bad stuff, who is getting jailed? In an era where every snapdragon SoC seems rootable from any old application, and you can use machine learning to pick out key words from text streams, do we really need this app in the market?

chrisco255 6y ago

Banning foreign entities with executive orders? Yes, the president should. Also, this country was started by throwing British tea into the Boston harbor so it's really nothing new. Obama confiscated property from Iranians, banned certain transactions with Libya, North Korea, Syria, and others. Probably every president has issued similar EOs at some point or another. Only difference this time is that TikTok is popular. I suppose we never really lamented the loss of Soviet Saturday morning cartoons. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_executive_actions_by_Barack_Obama https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_executive_actions_by...

onetimemanytime 6y ago

Congress has given the President this power, as the article says: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1701 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1701 "(a) Any authority granted to the President by section 1702 of this title may be exercised to deal with any unusual and extraordinary threat, which has its source in whole or substantial part outside the United States, to the national security, foreign policy, or economy of the United States, if the President declares a national emergency with respect to such threat." USA has given its President a lot more power over the years and decades.