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Yes. It is no surprise that they sue, but maybe that was a mistake. Because depending on the result, it might get TikTok banned in the EU as well. Or the resul
by ChemSpider 6y ago
Yes. It is no surprise that they sue, but maybe that was a mistake. Because depending on the result, it might get TikTok banned in the EU as well.
Or the result is that indeed their operation is 100% independent of their Chinese parent company and no US data ever touches mainland China... which would surprise me.
- bawolff 6y agoHonest question: would it matter if they stored data in mainland china? Wouldn't it still be fine if they are storing data there but not giving it to china gov? (Not that i really believe that any data in china is safe from gov, although i could say the same about usa, but what is the actual bar that the us gov has to meet to show its a national security risk? Is data on china soil sufficient?)
- hn_throwaway_99 6y ago> Wouldn't it still be fine if they are storing data there but not giving it to china gov? That situation does not exist. Chinese law basically means that any data held in China can be accessed by the government at any time.
- sschueller 6y agoLike in the US..., you just need a warrant which is just paperwork.
- chrisco255 6y agoUnfortunately the FISA courts have been abused like crazy. But warrants aren't just paperwork. If you're charged with a crime but the prosecution has violated your rights, you can walk free in the U.S. You have multiple layers of appeals courts to go through if you get railroaded. The CCP is truly authoritarian and rules and laws are what they say they are. Not even remotely equivalent.
- virtue3 6y agohttps://www.judiciary.senate.gov/fisa-investigation https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/fisa-investigation We're trying to roll that back apparently. I don't have a lot of hope but we'll see. These politicians are all basically under fire this november so they better damnwell hustle. Also, FWIW, companies can release FISA statements saying they've been accessed. How much of that is actually true depends on your level of paranoia.
- DiogenesKynikos 6y agoSnowden revealed a FISA warrant that granted access to data on all Verizon calls. At the point that courts are granting such broad (and blatantly unconstitutional) warrants, warrants don't matter any more. 1. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-reco...
- baddox 6y agoIs that unique to Chinese law?
- DetroitThrow 6y agoThe unique part of Chinese law is the lack of judicial supremacy or "rule of law". The party has supremacy over legal system interpretation as part of the '3 Supremes' order of precedence, with workers also coming ahead of the law. In the US system, there are still miscarriages of Justice, but there is judicial supremacy and separation of powers. The powers aren't as separated as say the French justice system, but most would say the US judicial system is mostly independent of the other branches of government.
- sbmthakur 6y ago> The party has supremacy over legal system interpretation as part of the '3 Supremes' order of precedence, with workers also coming ahead of the law. Very few people are aware about this. The party is supreme and institutions like PLA are answerable to the party, not to the people.
- panpanna 6y agoYeah, buy according to US law American companies must comply with government requests even if the data is stored abroad. So basically, why should anyone trust a US company if US thinks tiktok giving data to their government is a problem?
- macintux 6y agoAmerican companies have a legal system to protect them against unlawful requests. That rule of law is under attack, but exists, which does not seem to be the case for China.
- throw44532 6y agoDon’t National Security Letters and a Secret Courts bypass that?
- gruez 6y agoThey don't, hence why EU has data residency requirements, and American companies set up firewalled entities to comply (eg. Azure Germany).
- dear 6y agoYou need to read the laws in China where they require any chinese company or individual to hand over data to the chinese government on request, no exception, no lawsuit, period.
- luckylion 6y ago> Wouldn't it still be fine if they are storing data there but not giving it to china gov? Hard to say if it's even enough to keep it outside of China. As long as the company is under Chinese jurisdiction, they'll have a hard time saying "no, sorry, that data center is in Singapore, we won't comply". The EU has similar issues with the US cloud providers: even if an Amazon data center is in the EU, obviously they will hand over data if a US court order/NSL tells them to. One way that Microsoft tried to mitigate that was to have a data trustee run the data centers with Microsoft not having access, therefore not being able to give anything to the government. They've stopped offering it after a few years though.
- mtgx 6y ago> Wouldn't it still be fine if they are storing data there but not giving it to china gov That's a HUGE assumption to make. All companies are required to install backdoors BY LAW in China, and the gov can even have its own employees/spies within the companies' data centers. Why would you assume any different or that it's up to the company to give that data? It's not like the Chinese government really has to go through a democratic judge to do that.
- loulouxiv 6y agoWhy would it have any impact on EU ?