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That makes catching people impossible. We can't even determine the level of fraud, so faith in our voting system is eroded. Even if you believe that there is no

by burfog 6y ago

That makes catching people impossible. We can't even determine the level of fraud, so faith in our voting system is eroded. Even if you believe that there is no fraud, you should be deeply concerned that many other people are losing faith in election integrity. Elections are considered fraudulent until proven otherwise. We certainly could have decently secure elections without ID. Like this: You show up to vote in person, a good photo is taken, and you say who you are. That info is then made public. Political parties and other interested groups can sift through the photos, maybe with an AI, to find any crime. It's almost perfect. The main trouble is that fraud detection happens after the voting, so a person who doesn't fear prison can do as desired.

behringer 6y ago
We can and we have determined the level of fraud. Hint: It's nearly 0. The right is simply fear mongering to push their racist agenda.
jones1618 6y ago
Everyone is concentrating on the wrong thing. There are two possible kinds of voter fraud (both extremely rare), "retail fraud" (i.e. individual voters) and "wholesale fraud" (i.e. bulk fraud). Voter ID laws mostly "fix" a non-existent problem of individual false votes with the express intent of discouraging votes. The real problem you want to fix is "wholesale fraud" which means securing the whole system from voting machines (which should be open-source and paper-audited) to how votes are tallied. Think about it. If you were going to steal votes would you go to all the trouble to forge or hijack individual votes or would you bribe someone to flip a couple of digits at a county office? Of course, a trustworthy system includes how mail-in votes are tracked and verified but that is a well-understood problem working well for thousands and thousands of absentees, military personnel and whole states full of people who have voted that way regularly for decades.

by burfog 6y ago

behringer 6y ago

We can and we have determined the level of fraud. Hint: It's nearly 0. The right is simply fear mongering to push their racist agenda.

jones1618 6y ago

Everyone is concentrating on the wrong thing. There are two possible kinds of voter fraud (both extremely rare), "retail fraud" (i.e. individual voters) and "wholesale fraud" (i.e. bulk fraud). Voter ID laws mostly "fix" a non-existent problem of individual false votes with the express intent of discouraging votes. The real problem you want to fix is "wholesale fraud" which means securing the whole system from voting machines (which should be open-source and paper-audited) to how votes are tallied. Think about it. If you were going to steal votes would you go to all the trouble to forge or hijack individual votes or would you bribe someone to flip a couple of digits at a county office? Of course, a trustworthy system includes how mail-in votes are tracked and verified but that is a well-understood problem working well for thousands and thousands of absentees, military personnel and whole states full of people who have voted that way regularly for decades.