4 ms·

The fact that it's Uber's talking point doesn't make it any less true. If rideshare drivers are employees, then there's going to be fixed overhead costs of hir

The fact that it's Uber's talking point doesn't make it any less true. If rideshare drivers are employees, then there's going to be fixed overhead costs of hiring employees and drivers will not be able to set their own hours. The rideshare company would not recoup the costs of benefits for drivers that drive less than a certain number of hours per month, and so drivers would have to be required to work at least that many hours. Can you elaborate on what you mean by, "in practical terms drivers don't end up with the choice they ought to"? I know people who drive for Uber and Lyft less than 10 hours per week, and some do it nearly full time.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> If rideshare drivers are employees, then there's going to be fixed overhead costs of hiring employees and drivers will not be able to set their own hours There will be less flexibility about hours, but less risk that an hour reserved for work will be unpaid. Within the need not to overbook available business, and laws requiring payment for scheduled time even if cancelled at the lat minute, there's no inherent reason rideshare companies couldn't provide scheduling flexibility, including a notice-of-availability system for immediate call-ups. (Optimizing decision algorithms for when to bring on additional staff becomes is a challenge that this opens up, also similar with when to accept the cost of short-noticd cancelling scheduled shifts.) > The rideshare company would not recoup the costs of benefits for drivers that drive less than a certain number of hours per month Nor would they be required to provide benefits for them; most benefit mandates apply only to full-time employees, not part-time employees.
gamblor956 6y ago
Employees can set their own hours. White collar employees do it all the time... It's up to the employer what freedoms they allow. Generally, like with existing businesses, it would probably utilize a shift assignment system, where employees get assigned shifts but can swap them with other employees.
- emiliobumachar 6y ago
  The aforementioned drivers opting to work 10 hours a week, what are their options? The way I see it, as employees, their employers will either give them benefits for 10 hour work, or force them to work 40 hours.
  - tdeck 6y ago
    An employee working 10 hours a week is already a thing, it's called part-time work. Part time employees have fewer benefits and exist in many industries, e.g. food service. A weekend barista at Starbucks is not an independent contractor.
    - bhupy 6y ago
      A weekend barista is only comparable to a gig economy driver the day that they can decide on a whim to show up to work for an hour or take a 2 week break unannounced, bail in the middle of a shift, or skip a shift altogether with no repercussions.
      - toxik 6y ago
        The barista doesn’t bring their own espresso machine, isn’t expected to eat all externalities and fund their own healthcare and pension. Granted I don’t know how that works for employees in the US either, but that has always been the point of contention in Europe.
      - vkou 6y ago
        The ability to choose their own hours is only one of many complimentary litmus tests that determine whether or not someone is an employee or a contractor. It is not a solely sufficient, nor a necessary condition of classifying someone as a contractor.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > The way I see it, as employees, their employers will either give them benefits for 10 hour work, or force them to work 40 hours. Most benefit mandates apply to full-time workers, usually triggered at somewhere between 30-35 hours/week; those that apply to part time workers at all tend to be scaled down for them based on working hours.
eru 6y ago
Of course, 'employees' vs 'contractors' are purely terms made up by the legal system. So the people in charge of the legal system, both on the law making side and the law interpreting side, can over time change what they mean, and the meanings don't have to be particularly sensible nor consistent.

dragonwriter 6y ago

> If rideshare drivers are employees, then there's going to be fixed overhead costs of hiring employees and drivers will not be able to set their own hours There will be less flexibility about hours, but less risk that an hour reserved for work will be unpaid. Within the need not to overbook available business, and laws requiring payment for scheduled time even if cancelled at the lat minute, there's no inherent reason rideshare companies couldn't provide scheduling flexibility, including a notice-of-availability system for immediate call-ups. (Optimizing decision algorithms for when to bring on additional staff becomes is a challenge that this opens up, also similar with when to accept the cost of short-noticd cancelling scheduled shifts.) > The rideshare company would not recoup the costs of benefits for drivers that drive less than a certain number of hours per month Nor would they be required to provide benefits for them; most benefit mandates apply only to full-time employees, not part-time employees.

gamblor956 6y ago

Employees can set their own hours. White collar employees do it all the time... It's up to the employer what freedoms they allow. Generally, like with existing businesses, it would probably utilize a shift assignment system, where employees get assigned shifts but can swap them with other employees.

emiliobumachar 6y ago
The aforementioned drivers opting to work 10 hours a week, what are their options? The way I see it, as employees, their employers will either give them benefits for 10 hour work, or force them to work 40 hours.
- tdeck 6y ago
  An employee working 10 hours a week is already a thing, it's called part-time work. Part time employees have fewer benefits and exist in many industries, e.g. food service. A weekend barista at Starbucks is not an independent contractor.
  - bhupy 6y ago
    A weekend barista is only comparable to a gig economy driver the day that they can decide on a whim to show up to work for an hour or take a 2 week break unannounced, bail in the middle of a shift, or skip a shift altogether with no repercussions.
    - toxik 6y ago
      The barista doesn’t bring their own espresso machine, isn’t expected to eat all externalities and fund their own healthcare and pension. Granted I don’t know how that works for employees in the US either, but that has always been the point of contention in Europe.
    - vkou 6y ago
      The ability to choose their own hours is only one of many complimentary litmus tests that determine whether or not someone is an employee or a contractor. It is not a solely sufficient, nor a necessary condition of classifying someone as a contractor.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > The way I see it, as employees, their employers will either give them benefits for 10 hour work, or force them to work 40 hours. Most benefit mandates apply to full-time workers, usually triggered at somewhere between 30-35 hours/week; those that apply to part time workers at all tend to be scaled down for them based on working hours.

eru 6y ago

Of course, 'employees' vs 'contractors' are purely terms made up by the legal system. So the people in charge of the legal system, both on the law making side and the law interpreting side, can over time change what they mean, and the meanings don't have to be particularly sensible nor consistent.