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In your lawn care example you used the word "mutually". That is a difference between the Lyft/Uber relationship with drivers and your relationship with the lawn

In your lawn care example you used the word "mutually". That is a difference between the Lyft/Uber relationship with drivers and your relationship with the lawn care contractor. Maybe if Lyft/Uber allowed drivers to bid on rides drivers would become more contractor-esque? But then the latency would be much higher for users. The system would likely also regress to the proposed price, as well, since drivers would likely just accept the price proposed by the platform to save time.

taftster 6y ago
You are expecting that Uber/Lyft creates an "auction" environment in order for their drivers to be considered contractors? In my world view, an auction is not requirement for a driver to be considered independent. Drivers can: - drive on their own schedule - drive for competing ride share services (concurrently even) - drive for themselves - not drive at all Seems very independent contractor. Uber/Lyft created a marketplace; drivers are agreeing to drive within the constraints of that marketplace. They can also create their own customer relationships and ride share marketplace if they choose. If Uber/Lyft imposed restrictions on things like who a driver could give rides to or restricted concurrent ride share engagements, then that starts to feel like an employee. Rates have very little to do with it, in my humble opinion.
- popinman322 6y ago
  It looks like you're correct; the IRS doesn't seem to distinguish based on pay. https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/independent-contractor-defined https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...
- afiori 6y ago
  Part of the whole argument is not only whether drivers are technically employees or contractor but also whether Uber/Lyft are stretching those category so much that neither is a good fit for the situation. As far as I understand one of the problems is that the drivers' market is so saturated that both Uber and Lyft can act as if they where monopolies (or maybe monopsonies). They can technically move to a competitor but that applies no pressure on the market. Again, what makes this situation tricky is that it is essentially creating a new kind of employement-like relationship that current laws and regulation do not really account for.
  - Jommi 6y ago
    This is not true, moving to a competitor definitely applies pressure and keep both companies in check.
    - afiori 6y ago
      This is only true if either company ever risk running out of (good) drivers. As I understand it currently there are more workers than jobs, so if a driver decides to cut ties with one of the oligopsies they are unable to get the same amount of work from the competitor. So: "moving to a competitor definitely applies pressure" -> true; "keep both companies in check" -> false
      - Jommi 6y ago
        There are not more workers than jobs, ive worked in the industry and this is a fact. Workers on ridhailing platforms come in varying levels of quality and amount of hours they can supply You are thinking too much about just workers, when actually the smalelst divisible unit is hours. There is portion of drivers that barely ever switch, and then there is another portion that are constantly looking for the better deal, switching through outh the day. Its a scale. So to keep drivers happy and on your paltform, you need to implement bonus schemes or have certain base pays. Im not sure why so many people feel that they can comment on how the ridehailing platforms work without having any real experience in driving for them or working for them.

taftster 6y ago

You are expecting that Uber/Lyft creates an "auction" environment in order for their drivers to be considered contractors? In my world view, an auction is not requirement for a driver to be considered independent. Drivers can: - drive on their own schedule - drive for competing ride share services (concurrently even) - drive for themselves - not drive at all Seems very independent contractor. Uber/Lyft created a marketplace; drivers are agreeing to drive within the constraints of that marketplace. They can also create their own customer relationships and ride share marketplace if they choose. If Uber/Lyft imposed restrictions on things like who a driver could give rides to or restricted concurrent ride share engagements, then that starts to feel like an employee. Rates have very little to do with it, in my humble opinion.

popinman322 6y ago
It looks like you're correct; the IRS doesn't seem to distinguish based on pay. https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/independent-contractor-defined https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...
afiori 6y ago
Part of the whole argument is not only whether drivers are technically employees or contractor but also whether Uber/Lyft are stretching those category so much that neither is a good fit for the situation. As far as I understand one of the problems is that the drivers' market is so saturated that both Uber and Lyft can act as if they where monopolies (or maybe monopsonies). They can technically move to a competitor but that applies no pressure on the market. Again, what makes this situation tricky is that it is essentially creating a new kind of employement-like relationship that current laws and regulation do not really account for.
- Jommi 6y ago
  This is not true, moving to a competitor definitely applies pressure and keep both companies in check.
  - afiori 6y ago
    This is only true if either company ever risk running out of (good) drivers. As I understand it currently there are more workers than jobs, so if a driver decides to cut ties with one of the oligopsies they are unable to get the same amount of work from the competitor. So: "moving to a competitor definitely applies pressure" -> true; "keep both companies in check" -> false
    - Jommi 6y ago
      There are not more workers than jobs, ive worked in the industry and this is a fact. Workers on ridhailing platforms come in varying levels of quality and amount of hours they can supply You are thinking too much about just workers, when actually the smalelst divisible unit is hours. There is portion of drivers that barely ever switch, and then there is another portion that are constantly looking for the better deal, switching through outh the day. Its a scale. So to keep drivers happy and on your paltform, you need to implement bonus schemes or have certain base pays. Im not sure why so many people feel that they can comment on how the ridehailing platforms work without having any real experience in driving for them or working for them.