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Nothing, but since now they have the added cost of health insurance, minimal wage, etc, it would make more sense for them to arrange pre-set shifts for the driv

Nothing, but since now they have the added cost of health insurance, minimal wage, etc, it would make more sense for them to arrange pre-set shifts for the drivers to optimize for supply/demand based on time of the day. Some drivers would like that arrangement, especially if that's their full time job. But some drivers who do this for supplemental income may not be able to meet the demand of the new fixed schedule set by Uber/Lyft.

munk-a 6y ago
I think Uber & Lyft are just using flexible hours as a red-herring. They certainly can offer flexible hours to full time employees - no where does it say "Americans shalt work from nine until five so sayeth we the founders". They're just griping that they need to start paying benefits.
- Cookingboy 6y ago
  >They certainly can offer flexible hours to full time employees - no where does it say "Americans shalt work from nine until five so sayeth we the founders". I don't think you understand how a business like this works. For a customer serving business, they need to make sure they are staffed appropriately. Would it make sense for a restaurant to offer all of their staffs "flexible hours"? Is it ok for the waiter to show up at 3am when he has trouble sleeping and just get paid doing nothing? It's not about 9-5, but it's about when the customers show up.
  - munk-a 6y ago
    Sorry, I'm really confused, how is moving from contractors to employees supposed to make covering certain periods of the day harder for uber? Normal businesses with normal benefits that hire for off-normal shifts generally pay higher for those shift slots or find an employee that values that shift higher than mid-day and employers absolutely can have an expectation of business hours and fire people for failing to meet that. They can also choose to allow their employees to work more flexible hours but this choice is entirely disconnected from contractor vs. FTE. In the service industry in particular (as you noted above) showing up to work outside of core hours isn't likely to result in any productive work - maybe that waiter could run inventory or do some prep (and actually 3 AM isn't insanely early if you get a big breakfast rush) but that's entirely disconnected from uber saying: "Darn - we wanted to give them flexible hours, but now that they're employees I guess we can't let anyone work after 5PM" that's just BS PR from the company.
  - ericsoderstrom 6y ago
    Yeah but drivers currently are free to choose their hours however they like. Surely allowing them to continue to do the thing they already do and the platform is designed to allow them to do isn't going to cause the same problems as a waiter not showing up during normal meal hours...
  - kec 6y ago
    I seriously doubt there's anything in labor law which would prevent Uber from allowing flexible (fractional) hours to their workers, so long as those hours pay at least minimum wage. Uber isn't against this because it would make it impossible to run their business, they're against this because they're being forced to pay into things like unemployment which will make it more difficult for them to be profitable.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- macspoofing 6y ago
  >They certainly can offer flexible hours to full time employees They can't guarantee flexibility and full-time employment. That's the point. >"Americans shalt work from nine until five so sayeth we the founders". If there is no demand or there is over-supply at some particular time in some particular area, you can't will a job into existence. >They're just griping that they need to start paying benefits. Are they griping? The costs are going to be passed down to the consumer. They will still be more competitive than taxis (which are still abysmal with customer service). And by raising regulatory costs and requirements, you're making it harder for any new entrants to come in and compete. Sounds like Uber and Left break-even, and everyone else loses. Alternatively, if this new regulation kills Uber and Lyft, then everyone loses.
  - jliptzin 6y ago
    They are both just placeholders until we have robotaxi networks. 5-10 years max.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Do you really believe those aren't decades away for door-to-door?
      - three_seagrass 6y ago
        Waymo started publicly testing level 4 cars last year, and reportedly has 600 cars testing level 5. It isn't decades away anymore.
        ghaff 6y ago
        I find it somewhat amusing there are still people bought into the self-driving hype other than in limited circumstances. Does anyone actually believe these companies at this point? Who actually aren't saying much any longer. I'd be far less surprised if Google shutdown Waymo in a year or two than if they actually introduced a door-to-door driving service in an urban area without a safety driver present.
j2kun 6y ago
You'd think a multi-billion-dollar company with so many smart engineers could figure out how to fit both types of work into their system, if it really mattered. Silicon Valley exceptionalism is a garbage dream if paying your workers minimum wage and having flexible schedules at the same time is an insurmountable challenge.
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  Of course they could work it out. They are just kicking up a big stink because they don't want to pay the extra costs of hiring an employee.
anticensor 6y ago
> arrange pre-set shifts for the drivers to optimize for supply/demand based on time of the day. Do you mean something like peak hours split shift schedules that bus/train/ferry drivers have?

munk-a 6y ago

I think Uber & Lyft are just using flexible hours as a red-herring. They certainly can offer flexible hours to full time employees - no where does it say "Americans shalt work from nine until five so sayeth we the founders". They're just griping that they need to start paying benefits.

Cookingboy 6y ago
>They certainly can offer flexible hours to full time employees - no where does it say "Americans shalt work from nine until five so sayeth we the founders". I don't think you understand how a business like this works. For a customer serving business, they need to make sure they are staffed appropriately. Would it make sense for a restaurant to offer all of their staffs "flexible hours"? Is it ok for the waiter to show up at 3am when he has trouble sleeping and just get paid doing nothing? It's not about 9-5, but it's about when the customers show up.
- munk-a 6y ago
  Sorry, I'm really confused, how is moving from contractors to employees supposed to make covering certain periods of the day harder for uber? Normal businesses with normal benefits that hire for off-normal shifts generally pay higher for those shift slots or find an employee that values that shift higher than mid-day and employers absolutely can have an expectation of business hours and fire people for failing to meet that. They can also choose to allow their employees to work more flexible hours but this choice is entirely disconnected from contractor vs. FTE. In the service industry in particular (as you noted above) showing up to work outside of core hours isn't likely to result in any productive work - maybe that waiter could run inventory or do some prep (and actually 3 AM isn't insanely early if you get a big breakfast rush) but that's entirely disconnected from uber saying: "Darn - we wanted to give them flexible hours, but now that they're employees I guess we can't let anyone work after 5PM" that's just BS PR from the company.
- ericsoderstrom 6y ago
  Yeah but drivers currently are free to choose their hours however they like. Surely allowing them to continue to do the thing they already do and the platform is designed to allow them to do isn't going to cause the same problems as a waiter not showing up during normal meal hours...
- kec 6y ago
  I seriously doubt there's anything in labor law which would prevent Uber from allowing flexible (fractional) hours to their workers, so long as those hours pay at least minimum wage. Uber isn't against this because it would make it impossible to run their business, they're against this because they're being forced to pay into things like unemployment which will make it more difficult for them to be profitable.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
macspoofing 6y ago
>They certainly can offer flexible hours to full time employees They can't guarantee flexibility and full-time employment. That's the point. >"Americans shalt work from nine until five so sayeth we the founders". If there is no demand or there is over-supply at some particular time in some particular area, you can't will a job into existence. >They're just griping that they need to start paying benefits. Are they griping? The costs are going to be passed down to the consumer. They will still be more competitive than taxis (which are still abysmal with customer service). And by raising regulatory costs and requirements, you're making it harder for any new entrants to come in and compete. Sounds like Uber and Left break-even, and everyone else loses. Alternatively, if this new regulation kills Uber and Lyft, then everyone loses.
- jliptzin 6y ago
  They are both just placeholders until we have robotaxi networks. 5-10 years max.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Do you really believe those aren't decades away for door-to-door?
    - three_seagrass 6y ago
      Waymo started publicly testing level 4 cars last year, and reportedly has 600 cars testing level 5. It isn't decades away anymore.
      - ghaff 6y ago
        I find it somewhat amusing there are still people bought into the self-driving hype other than in limited circumstances. Does anyone actually believe these companies at this point? Who actually aren't saying much any longer. I'd be far less surprised if Google shutdown Waymo in a year or two than if they actually introduced a door-to-door driving service in an urban area without a safety driver present.

j2kun 6y ago

You'd think a multi-billion-dollar company with so many smart engineers could figure out how to fit both types of work into their system, if it really mattered. Silicon Valley exceptionalism is a garbage dream if paying your workers minimum wage and having flexible schedules at the same time is an insurmountable challenge.

Polylactic_acid 6y ago
Of course they could work it out. They are just kicking up a big stink because they don't want to pay the extra costs of hiring an employee.

anticensor 6y ago

> arrange pre-set shifts for the drivers to optimize for supply/demand based on time of the day. Do you mean something like peak hours split shift schedules that bus/train/ferry drivers have?