5 ms·

Many years back I had the opportunity to visit one of those data centres at the heart of Europe's financial operations. In case of fire, you had a minute or so

by wvh 6y ago

Many years back I had the opportunity to visit one of those data centres at the heart of Europe's financial operations. In case of fire, you had a minute or so to get out, because then the place is pumped full of argon. I guess that's a DC variation of your "battleshort"...

dividedbyzero 6y ago
What would they do in case of injured/incapacitated people in there? Seems conceivable that some things that could start a fire might cause that as well.
- brewdad 6y ago
  Name a server rack after those who gave the ultimate sacrifice.
frabert 6y ago
Interesting, one of the guys that worked on my Uni's DC told us that the fire suppressor system is interlocked: to enter the DC, you need to open a door using a key. Upon opening the door, the fire extinguishing system is disabled, and is only enabled when the door is closed. The people working in the DC are supposed to keep the key on themselves. Also, they used Halon 1301 instead of Argon as the gas.
- mark-r 6y ago
  Halon is a CFC and isn't legal anymore due to international agreements.
  - frabert 6y ago
    I must have confused it with some other fire suppression system I heard of, then!
    - mark-r 6y ago
      Oh Halon was very popular for a long time. I don't know how long they could be grandfathered, but recharge supplies must be impossible to get by now.
      - chipsa 6y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_agent_FS_49_C2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_agent_FS_49_C2 Looks like there's a drop in replacement for Halon.
        sbierwagen 6y ago
        Amusingly, tetrafluoroethane and pentafluoroethane are themselves being phased out in refrigeration applications because of their sky-high global warming potential, thousands of times worse than CO2.
      - Y-Bopinator 6y ago
        If they have 10000 gallons of it, it doesn’t wear out. It just stays bottled up.
  - myself248 6y ago
    Yeah, you can't install new Halon 1211 systems, but it's still out there. New systems are usually FM-200 or Inergen, which I believe can use the same plumbing as Halon. Older systems, before Halon was invented, are typically CO2 or Argon. They require a lot more agent to accomplish the job, but they're very simple. I worked briefly in a CO2 datacenter. It dated from the mainframe era, and had some gorgeous mementos on the walls. There were SCBA packs in the hallway outside, and everyone got a brief safety lecture before being allowed into the facility. The point I remember was basically "The alarm will sound intermittently for twenty seconds, then go solid for five, before discharge. If it goes off, do not stop to save your files, just run for the door. If you're not outside yet when the solid tone sounds, hold your breath and run on what's in your lungs." Apparently the CO2 is considerably nastier than Halon to get a lung-full of...
    - mark-r 6y ago
      Yes, carbon dioxide is not biologically inert like Halon is. It's the signal your body uses to say it's out of oxygen. You will definitely react negatively to getting a lung full of it.
      - Doxin 6y ago
        For reference: It's not a lack of oxygen that causes the sensation of asphyxiation. It's a surplus of CO2. It'd essentially be the gas-based equivalent of waterboarding.
        zaarn 6y ago
        A large surplus of CO2 is also toxic, regardless of how much oxygen you have (see: Apollo 13).
robaato 6y ago
Worked on a project in late 80s for an Italian bank. We implemented a SWIFT (financial) interface (on Stratus for reliability reasons). A few fun and games: - The Stratus supposedly had fault tolerant duplexing of boards - pull one out and the other keeps working. A famous demo where local consultant pulls out the only board which wasn't duplicated! - The machine room was also fire proofed with Halon gas (if I recall correctly), but due to security concerns the door was locked from inside by operators when present (luckily as programmers we weren't expected to work inside with doors locked!). Luckily also, it was my first exposure to "paired programming"/"paired operating" as in there were invariably 2 of them. - A couple of the operators became too interested in how to work things, and wrote a quite comprehensive manual. They were "moved on" within the bank, because for security, management only wanted "people who could follow instructions", not "who can think for themselves". - the whole headquarters building was in a guarded compound, where ultimate protection against "red brigade terrorists" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades) were the armed guards. We used to meet them in the ground floor cafe every mid-morning, with a revolver on their hip, while they drank an espresso with brandy chaser. Really inspired confidence that they would be there to protect us should the need arise!
- consp 6y ago
  > They were "moved on" within the bank, because for security, management only wanted "people who could follow instructions", not "who can think for themselves" And this is why we cannot have nice IT security practices.

by wvh 6y ago

dividedbyzero 6y ago

What would they do in case of injured/incapacitated people in there? Seems conceivable that some things that could start a fire might cause that as well.

brewdad 6y ago
Name a server rack after those who gave the ultimate sacrifice.

frabert 6y ago

Interesting, one of the guys that worked on my Uni's DC told us that the fire suppressor system is interlocked: to enter the DC, you need to open a door using a key. Upon opening the door, the fire extinguishing system is disabled, and is only enabled when the door is closed. The people working in the DC are supposed to keep the key on themselves. Also, they used Halon 1301 instead of Argon as the gas.

mark-r 6y ago
Halon is a CFC and isn't legal anymore due to international agreements.
- frabert 6y ago
  I must have confused it with some other fire suppression system I heard of, then!
  - mark-r 6y ago
    Oh Halon was very popular for a long time. I don't know how long they could be grandfathered, but recharge supplies must be impossible to get by now.
    - chipsa 6y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_agent_FS_49_C2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_agent_FS_49_C2 Looks like there's a drop in replacement for Halon.
      - sbierwagen 6y ago
        Amusingly, tetrafluoroethane and pentafluoroethane are themselves being phased out in refrigeration applications because of their sky-high global warming potential, thousands of times worse than CO2.
    - Y-Bopinator 6y ago
      If they have 10000 gallons of it, it doesn’t wear out. It just stays bottled up.
- myself248 6y ago
  Yeah, you can't install new Halon 1211 systems, but it's still out there. New systems are usually FM-200 or Inergen, which I believe can use the same plumbing as Halon. Older systems, before Halon was invented, are typically CO2 or Argon. They require a lot more agent to accomplish the job, but they're very simple. I worked briefly in a CO2 datacenter. It dated from the mainframe era, and had some gorgeous mementos on the walls. There were SCBA packs in the hallway outside, and everyone got a brief safety lecture before being allowed into the facility. The point I remember was basically "The alarm will sound intermittently for twenty seconds, then go solid for five, before discharge. If it goes off, do not stop to save your files, just run for the door. If you're not outside yet when the solid tone sounds, hold your breath and run on what's in your lungs." Apparently the CO2 is considerably nastier than Halon to get a lung-full of...
  - mark-r 6y ago
    Yes, carbon dioxide is not biologically inert like Halon is. It's the signal your body uses to say it's out of oxygen. You will definitely react negatively to getting a lung full of it.
    - Doxin 6y ago
      For reference: It's not a lack of oxygen that causes the sensation of asphyxiation. It's a surplus of CO2. It'd essentially be the gas-based equivalent of waterboarding.
      - zaarn 6y ago
        A large surplus of CO2 is also toxic, regardless of how much oxygen you have (see: Apollo 13).

robaato 6y ago

Worked on a project in late 80s for an Italian bank. We implemented a SWIFT (financial) interface (on Stratus for reliability reasons). A few fun and games: - The Stratus supposedly had fault tolerant duplexing of boards - pull one out and the other keeps working. A famous demo where local consultant pulls out the only board which wasn't duplicated! - The machine room was also fire proofed with Halon gas (if I recall correctly), but due to security concerns the door was locked from inside by operators when present (luckily as programmers we weren't expected to work inside with doors locked!). Luckily also, it was my first exposure to "paired programming"/"paired operating" as in there were invariably 2 of them. - A couple of the operators became too interested in how to work things, and wrote a quite comprehensive manual. They were "moved on" within the bank, because for security, management only wanted "people who could follow instructions", not "who can think for themselves". - the whole headquarters building was in a guarded compound, where ultimate protection against "red brigade terrorists" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades) were the armed guards. We used to meet them in the ground floor cafe every mid-morning, with a revolver on their hip, while they drank an espresso with brandy chaser. Really inspired confidence that they would be there to protect us should the need arise!

consp 6y ago
> They were "moved on" within the bank, because for security, management only wanted "people who could follow instructions", not "who can think for themselves" And this is why we cannot have nice IT security practices.