6 ms·

Not accepting largely popular policy positions into their party platform is one.

by ianleeclark 6y ago

sonotathrowaway 6y ago
Can you name three? Without Medicare for all, seeing as it’s not actually a popular platform issue.
- ianleeclark 6y ago
  Hey, let's ignore this one issue that has majority acceptance across political lines and upwards of 70% Democrat approval because I've got a grudge against it. You can do what you want, throwaway account. When you get Matt Gaetz in 2024 let me know how it feels. 4 years of more means testing will get you there real quick.
  - enraged_camel 6y ago
    I agree that M4A should be adopted, but disagree that not adopting it is hurting Biden. He's doing spectacularly in both state polls and national polls. Back in Spring this could have been ignored, but the election is less than 3 months away now and he has managed to not just retain his lead, but increase it. There's no reason to rock that boat now with major policy adoptions, in my opinion. For what it's worth, if Dems manage to gain control of the Senate, then I think President Biden will sign anything that is put in front of him, including an M4A bill. Not doing that would actually cost him the 2024 election.
    - ianleeclark 6y ago
      > Not doing that would actually cost him the 2024 election. The man has stated he has no interest in running again afterwards. If we're, for whatever reason, taking what he says as truth, then he doesn't need that. Furthermore, and this is the real important part, the man doesn't base his power upon accountability to the electorate. His base of power showed it's strengrh prior to Super Tuesday. He's riding on the democratic base and whatever reaction there is to Trump, but he's in no way accountable to the electorate.
      - enraged_camel 6y ago
        I don't recall Biden ever making a promise to not seek re-election. I remember him expressing the idea, but mostly within the context of addressing criticisms that he's pretty old. He never committed to it, however. I cannot think of a single President in recent history who actually refused to run for re-election. Can you? Regardless of whether he seeks a second term, I don't think he would sabotage the Democratic Party by refusing to sign an M4A bill, if one is put in front of him.
        ianleeclark 6y ago
        > I don't think he would sabotage the Democratic Party by refusing to sign an M4A bill, if one is put in front of him. He wouldn't need to, they'd never put one forward. Just like card check.
    - umvi 6y ago
      Pretty much everyone knows Biden is senile and that his VP is going to be the real president. So it's a mystery to me why we still don't know who that is mere months before we are supposed to vote.
- sonotathrowaway 6y ago
  I’ll reply to this since I cannot reply to the sibling comment - but Medicare for all is not an actually popular or feasible idea. The polls that show support for Medicare for all have wording you the effect of “would you like free healthcare?”. Support quickly drops once polls start asking about the real trade offs that would have to be made in order to actually afford this change in healthcare, and the tax hikes needed to make it work. Trying to pass off m4a as a feasible plan isn’t real, so it’s supporters all cling to support that a magical free plan would garner. They don’t actually have a plan to make it feasible, nor do they take the time to explain that part to their followers.
  - enraged_camel 6y ago
    You can actually reply to comments, there's just a timeout period where the reply button is hidden (to discourage quick/dismissive replies).
  - ianleeclark 6y ago
    > tax hikes needed to make it work. Crazy how when you word polls to indicate that taxes would be "hiked," that people get spooked. Never mind how we'd save money overall. > Trying to pass off m4a as a feasible plan isn’t real This is the real tragedy of the Bernie campaign. It wasn't feasible because it'd be spiked by Democrats in addition to Republicans. It's really heart-rending. You've got an entire voting base who simply can't imagine a better future where you're not squeezed for every cent, where you're not represented by people who are more focused on representing Pfizer, and where you don't have to be constantly in fear of accidentally getting cancer and, whoops, kids can't go to college now. Or say you catch a stray bullet, take an ambulance, and you're not covered--youre double fucked then.
    - sonotathrowaway 6y ago
      See I guess that’s the exact reason I’m not a sanders supporter. I care about outcomes and couldn’t care less about the strategies used to get there. I see a public option as feasible, cost effective, minimally disruptive, and effective. I don’t fantasize about a 40 trillion dollar plan that would upend the largest American industry with uncertain effects. I’m especially not fantasizing about this effort being led by a man who spent his entire career in politics yet couldn’t manage to get a single large piece of legislation passed, and who actively burned his ties to the party he emigrated to because their politics weren’t radical enough.

Not accepting largely popular policy positions into their party platform is one.

sonotathrowaway 6y ago

Can you name three? Without Medicare for all, seeing as it’s not actually a popular platform issue.

ianleeclark 6y ago
Hey, let's ignore this one issue that has majority acceptance across political lines and upwards of 70% Democrat approval because I've got a grudge against it. You can do what you want, throwaway account. When you get Matt Gaetz in 2024 let me know how it feels. 4 years of more means testing will get you there real quick.
- enraged_camel 6y ago
  I agree that M4A should be adopted, but disagree that not adopting it is hurting Biden. He's doing spectacularly in both state polls and national polls. Back in Spring this could have been ignored, but the election is less than 3 months away now and he has managed to not just retain his lead, but increase it. There's no reason to rock that boat now with major policy adoptions, in my opinion. For what it's worth, if Dems manage to gain control of the Senate, then I think President Biden will sign anything that is put in front of him, including an M4A bill. Not doing that would actually cost him the 2024 election.
  - ianleeclark 6y ago
    > Not doing that would actually cost him the 2024 election. The man has stated he has no interest in running again afterwards. If we're, for whatever reason, taking what he says as truth, then he doesn't need that. Furthermore, and this is the real important part, the man doesn't base his power upon accountability to the electorate. His base of power showed it's strengrh prior to Super Tuesday. He's riding on the democratic base and whatever reaction there is to Trump, but he's in no way accountable to the electorate.
    - enraged_camel 6y ago
      I don't recall Biden ever making a promise to not seek re-election. I remember him expressing the idea, but mostly within the context of addressing criticisms that he's pretty old. He never committed to it, however. I cannot think of a single President in recent history who actually refused to run for re-election. Can you? Regardless of whether he seeks a second term, I don't think he would sabotage the Democratic Party by refusing to sign an M4A bill, if one is put in front of him.
      - ianleeclark 6y ago
        > I don't think he would sabotage the Democratic Party by refusing to sign an M4A bill, if one is put in front of him. He wouldn't need to, they'd never put one forward. Just like card check.
  - umvi 6y ago
    Pretty much everyone knows Biden is senile and that his VP is going to be the real president. So it's a mystery to me why we still don't know who that is mere months before we are supposed to vote.
sonotathrowaway 6y ago
I’ll reply to this since I cannot reply to the sibling comment - but Medicare for all is not an actually popular or feasible idea. The polls that show support for Medicare for all have wording you the effect of “would you like free healthcare?”. Support quickly drops once polls start asking about the real trade offs that would have to be made in order to actually afford this change in healthcare, and the tax hikes needed to make it work. Trying to pass off m4a as a feasible plan isn’t real, so it’s supporters all cling to support that a magical free plan would garner. They don’t actually have a plan to make it feasible, nor do they take the time to explain that part to their followers.
- enraged_camel 6y ago
  You can actually reply to comments, there's just a timeout period where the reply button is hidden (to discourage quick/dismissive replies).
- ianleeclark 6y ago
  > tax hikes needed to make it work. Crazy how when you word polls to indicate that taxes would be "hiked," that people get spooked. Never mind how we'd save money overall. > Trying to pass off m4a as a feasible plan isn’t real This is the real tragedy of the Bernie campaign. It wasn't feasible because it'd be spiked by Democrats in addition to Republicans. It's really heart-rending. You've got an entire voting base who simply can't imagine a better future where you're not squeezed for every cent, where you're not represented by people who are more focused on representing Pfizer, and where you don't have to be constantly in fear of accidentally getting cancer and, whoops, kids can't go to college now. Or say you catch a stray bullet, take an ambulance, and you're not covered--youre double fucked then.
  - sonotathrowaway 6y ago
    See I guess that’s the exact reason I’m not a sanders supporter. I care about outcomes and couldn’t care less about the strategies used to get there. I see a public option as feasible, cost effective, minimally disruptive, and effective. I don’t fantasize about a 40 trillion dollar plan that would upend the largest American industry with uncertain effects. I’m especially not fantasizing about this effort being led by a man who spent his entire career in politics yet couldn’t manage to get a single large piece of legislation passed, and who actively burned his ties to the party he emigrated to because their politics weren’t radical enough.